F1 Testing week 2 @ Jerez

[Mr Jack]

Sometimes the fastest cars in testing (top 1 or 2) are running on fumes trying to make a statement (pull in sponsors) - although the top teams rarely engage in this. However the plum slowest team of tests rarely (if ever) start winning races because they have been sandbagging. Being plum slowest usually means you have built a lemon (although you can sugar coat that as you like - as most teams do!).

Yup, there's usually one or two midrange teams that overperform in testing and don't deliver come raceday; and the exact order and margins are hard to discern but I don't ever recall a complete switch around.

Having said that: this is still early in testing. I wouldn't be too surprised to see Mercedes move forward as testing progresses.

 

[Type_R]

on other forums im sick of hearing our "amus experts" already know to the tenth how fast a each car is...

i swear ocuk seems to have more inteligent members than the so called "motor sport" forums like autofail etc

williams were topping testing times in 2009 or whenever it was and come the races they were no where.. hrt could probablt top the time sheets if they ran on fumes.

also its a test so the cars dont have to follow the rules and could be running well under the minimum weight for all we know, we dont know if teams are using ballast or not like they probably need to for the real sessions

Didn't Rosberg also top pretty much every practice session in 2009 in that Williams too. Clearly the car did have speed (even when within the regulations) just in a specific configuration.

 

[pingwing]

Didn't Rosberg also top pretty much every practice session in 2009 in that Williams too. Clearly the car did have speed (even when within the regulations) just in a specific configuration.

Yeah back when the double diffuser was only used between 3 teams, Toyota sandbagged so no testing time would be used to copy there's and Brawn didnt turn up.

The car wasnt too bad, just didnt find the luck/quite enough speed in the first few races to capitalise on the performance benefit.

Sauber last year is the best example of over the strange testing times not matching up to race pace when they really needed sponsors ass they were fast but either running on fumes or less ballast to get some headlines

 

[sunama]

Didn't Rosberg also top pretty much every practice session in 2009 in that Williams too. Clearly the car did have speed (even when within the regulations) just in a specific configuration.

Thats exactly what I was about to say.

That year Rosberg was quick in practise sessions (similar to what he did in testing). Then, come official qualifying he would go backwards. Come race day, he would go back further.

I actually think that Rosberg took a step forward last year, where he improved his consistency (which is what is required during races).

I wonder what MSc will do if Mercedes churn out a lemon. I'm wondering if he would ever consider joining Renault Lotus (formerly Renault, formerly Bennetton, who MSc drove for, before).

 

[GravyMonster]

Possible McLaren exhaust location: in the teatray/bib? Pic here

If that is really where it is then that must have taken some work to route the exhaust forward, not only around the fuel tank and radiators - but also around the damn driver!

 

[Type_R]

Thats exactly what I was about to say.

That year Rosberg was quick in practise sessions (similar to what he did in testing). Then, come official qualifying he would go backwards. Come race day, he would go back further.

I actually think that Rosberg took a step forward last year, where he improved his consistency (which is what is required during races).

I wonder what MSc will do if Mercedes churn out a lemon. I'm wondering if he would ever consider joining Renault Lotus (formerly Renault, formerly Bennetton, who MSc drove for, before).

The real question is whether Renault would want him. Going by last year's performances it would seem better to have Heidi in the seat! Plus the Merc is designed to suit Schui this year (regardless of what Merc say) so he probably wouldn't want to quit so early. Hmm wonder if this is why Rosberg is struggling in the Merc.

 

[sunama]

Yeah back when the double diffuser was only used between 3 teams, Toyota sandbagged so no testing time would be used to copy there's and Brawn didnt turn up.

Eh?

When did this happen?

Toyota were either ordinary or crap during the season. From what I remember, their testing performances were similar to the first few races of the season. I don't remember them being poor in testing and then winning races when the season started.

 

[ZeniTimes]

Loving the car!!

 

[Type_R]

Eh?

When did this happen?

Toyota were either ordinary or crap during the season. From what I remember, their testing performances were similar to the first few races of the season. I don't remember them being poor in testing and then winning races when the season started.

I think what pingwing meant was that Toyota were extremely anal about keeping their DD under wraps. They certainly didn't want any cameras or TV anywhere near it at the start of the season.

They did stick it on pole in Bahrain didn't they? Maybe that's the sandbagging he was referring to!

 

[Duke]

The only test really worth looking at is the final one imo. Especially as it will be at the same location as the first race.

 

[Type_R]

The only test really worth looking at is the final one imo. Especially as it will be at the same location as the first race.

Its worth looking at all of them. Reliability is something it gives you an insight into as well as how well developed the cars look (not that I am an expert). The McLaren looks superb it must be said! To have hidden those exhausts so well, someone needs to point a thermal imaging camera at that car to find out where they are!

 

[Kenai]

Testing needs to be viewed as a whole, there are just too many variables on any given day to make decent comparisons.

Ferrari might be a second faster than McLaren today but they might be testing soft tyres on low weight today, whilst McLaren are testing hard tyres on a fully fuelled car.

Tomorrow might be the opposite and McLaren are a second faster.

Trying to make direct comparisons so early on in testing when different teams could be testing entirely different set ups is a waste of time.

 

[Type_R]

Testing needs to be viewed as a whole, there are just too many variables on any given day to make decent comparisons.

Ferrari might be a second faster than McLaren today but they might be testing soft tyres on low weight today, whilst McLaren are testing hard tyres on a fully fuelled car.

Tomorrow might be the opposite and McLaren are a second faster.

Trying to make direct comparisons so early on in testing when different teams could be testing entirely different set ups is a waste of time.

Yes this is true, however! Alonso/Massa were close to the fastest in Valencia in the last test. Today again they are setting the pace. Now clearly they are not stupid enough to just be testing soft tyres, running on fumes. They are running their test programme so going through the motions. The case is 1-2 seconds difference doesn't really mean anything, yet being 4 seconds off the pace (like Merc seem to be) does suggest something is amiss. Sure it could be explained by everyone else running on fumes and Merc brimming the tank or sandbagging. But surely to validate data from your simulations etc you need to run the car in all configs at some point during the tests! I suppose time will tell!

 

[arknor]

Its worth looking at all of them. Reliability is something it gives you an insight into as well as how well developed the cars look (not that I am an expert). The McLaren looks superb it must be said! To have hidden those exhausts so well, someone needs to point a thermal imaging camera at that car to find out where they are!

they are at the front

, merc seem to be doing heavy fuel runs on the hard tyres so far today

 

[[TW]Taggart]

Possible McLaren exhaust location: in the teatray/bib? Pic here

If that is really where it is then that must have taken some work to route the exhaust forward, not only around the fuel tank and radiators - but also around the damn driver!

in theory could you route 2/4 cylinders of the v8 foward from the front of the engine and the rest rearwards? ofc harmonics and thermodynamics and all of that jazz need to be taken into account. but would that work?

 

[Type_R]

they are at the front

, merc seem to be doing heavy fuel runs on the hard tyres so far today

And the proof of this is? So far we have a pic of the Mclaren with holes at the back (a few posts up) and a possible hole for the exhaust at the front?

 

[JonnyGLC]

in theory could you route 2/4 cylinders of the v8 foward from the front of the engine and the rest rearwards? ofc harmonics and thermodynamics and all of that jazz need to be taken into account. but would that work?

The rules state there must only be two exhaust exits in the same position on either side of the car

 

[sunama]

Sure it could be explained by everyone else running on fumes and Merc brimming the tank or sandbagging.

I highly doubt that Merc are sandbagging. If they had some innovative pieces on their car and were 1-2s/lap faster than everybody else, then they would absolutely have cause to sandbag (to delay everybody copying their innovations). But from what I see, Merc don't look too hot at the moment.

But surely to validate data from your simulations etc you need to run the car in all configs at some point during the tests! I suppose time will tell!

EXACTLY! You cannot sandbag all the time. Normally, on the final days of a testing week, the teams try and go as quick as possible, if only to see how fast they can genuinely go and also, this has the effect of boosting morale for the people who have worked so hard for the last 2-3 months.

Its still early days and I feel we shall get a very good idea by the time we reach the final days of the final test. I doubt anybody will be holding back, then.

 

[GravyMonster]

14:26 And while we wait, some insight from @TeamAnglais: I'll let someone else decide when it's the right time to start worrying about the pace of the Mercedes. But here are the details of the 14-lap run Rosberg just did before he stopped:

28.1, 23.9, 23.9, 24.4, 24.5, 24.3, 24.6, 25.0, 26.2, 25.4, 25.3, 26.1, 26.0, 25.7

He then pitted a couple of times but rejoined without refuelling or changing tyres:

26.5, 27.1, 26.8

Earlier, Webber was consistently in the 1m23s over a similar 19-lap run. Massa dipped into the 1m22s and then 1m24s late on two long runs. The only other car to do a stint as long as 12 laps so far is Trulli, and he dropped from 1m24/25s to 1m26s at the end.

It doesn't mention the tyres each car used, but either way, it's not great.

 

[pingwing]

I think what pingwing meant was that Toyota were extremely anal about keeping their DD under wraps. They certainly didn't want any cameras or TV anywhere near it at the start of the season.

They did stick it on pole in Bahrain didn't they? Maybe that's the sandbagging he was referring to!

That's exactly what I was going for!

Completely forgot sandbagging is a banned word and/or doesnt exist in F1 too

But yeah Toyota went mental not showing anyone the back of their car and did get a few good moments with it that wasnt apparent in testing...