*** FA Cup - Qtr Finals - 12th & 13th March 2011 ***

[Tom84]

Go away

 

[Gilly]

Go away

Lol

 

[atpbx]

Tbf Tom, it was no worse than your predictions for the Liverpool and Chelsea games

He hasnt yet achieved enlightenment yet BaZ, he is still under the impression that people mucking around on an internet forum is a true reflection of the person in the real world.

This is the reason why I love the cheeky little lug nut, him and a couple of others, they are like stress balls.
When I think of him getting all wound up, with his little red face getting all angry about what someone on the internet about football, it makes me happy.

 

[HangTime]

edit - Surely Walcott is a wide player , does Wishere ever play wide positions? (As you suggest they compete for the same spot)

He was going to be competing for a place because as I said it depends on the opposition and whether Nasri is played out wide or in the centre. So what I'm saying is that at the start of the season, the team would have been (ignoring keeper and defence) RvP as striker, with Arshavin wide left, Walcott wide right, then Fabregas, Song and Nasri in the middle. OR, in some games where he wants a more defensive setup, he might have played Wilshere instead of Walcott, and pushed Nasri out wide. Players don't have to play the same position as each other to be competing for a place, it depends on the lineup of the whole team.

within a couple of years he should have a healthy number of England caps under his belt which if nothing else will help Arsenal's cause no end

The thing is he shouldn't actually be playing regularly for England (yet), as Lampard, Gerrard, Parker etc still have a year or two left at the top and should be ahead of him in the pecking order, but Capello seems to like him and of course we get the usual friendly nonsense with dropouts, 6 subs etc etc.

Ramsey is only (slightly) better because he has a little more experience, hopefully Ramsey gets back to full fitness over the summer and then it will be competition between those two who gets more senior starts (I personally think Wilshere will, but its a close call)

Ramsey has started looking OK until he got injured, but I always rated Wilshere higher based on what I saw of him, if anything Ramsey is overrated, I can see him going the way of so many young Arsenal midfielders, stick around for a couple of years and then be forced to move on to build some sort of career. It really annoyed me seeing him getting picked ahead of Wilshere last season but based on the latter's performances this season I expect he has been overtaken, I can't see Wilshere getting dropped in favour of Ramsey until the Carling Cup starts next season. Also Wilshere gets the nod because he likes a tackle, the problem with Ramsey is how you would fit him into a team with Fabregas, you'd pretty much have to play Song to accomodate them both and sooner or later he will get suspended because he is a yellow card waiting to happen.

 

[atpbx]

Also Wilshere gets the nod because he likes a tackle, the problem with Ramsey is how you would fit him into a team with Fabregas, you'd pretty much have to play Song to accomodate them both and sooner or later he will get suspended because he is a yellow card waiting to happen.

I'm not sticking the boot in, but any Arsenal fan who is concerned about where to play Fabregas at the start of next season is worrying about nothing. He isnt going to be there, so there will be plenty of room for booth Wilshire and Ramsey to play.

 

[aaron333]

and im going to do it again


just got back i am so proud of stoke today and im glad that West Ham didnt get away with that cheating. Ref was rubbish for both teams, though Ethrington went down easily.

Buzzing

Taking advantage of a mistake from the referee, yes. Cheating? No. Diving is cheating

 

[HangTime]

The thing is Ramsey still shouldn't get a look in even if Fabregas were to leave, as Nasri will take his place. He's your common-and-garden Wenger young Brit buy, another Pennant, Jeffers or Upson who will stay a few years, get frustrated at lack of opportunities and then go on to forge a career for himself at a middling club.

Anyway, I should stop talking about Wilshere et al now as this isn't really the place (although the ban on club threads makes it awkward).

 

[Greenlizard0]

What are you talking about, doing better would require more money, then how did we win before? Utd have always spent along the same amount they have spent in the past several years, probably more, or less wasted anyway, yet they won things. Chelsea haven't got half the depth in squad we do.

We spent more, on better and more quality in the past. We haven't really done this for a a few years now and so we've dropped down.

If UTD's budget allows them to buy and keep the best, than that would, in comparison to us, be a greater expense.

 

[HangTime]

Actually Arsenal have done MORE 'big' purchases in recent years than they used to: Koscielny ~£10m, Vermaelen £10m, Arshavin £15m, Nasri ~£12m etc etc. So in less than 3 years we've bought 4 players costing £10m+, compared to just two I think in the previous 7 years (Hleb and Reyes).

The big difference in my opinion is that we have been selling a bunch of players, i.e. world beaters like Henry and Vieira, who have never been truly replaced.

 

[Greenlizard0]

I mentioned Arshavin above, DM was quoting a post of mine much earlier in this thread.
--
The trouble is unfortunately those price tags were once fine to get Henry and Vieira in, i.e. the world beaters.

You need double or even triple that these days going by the figures that the clubs around us have spent.

 

[stoke1863]

Taking advantage of a mistake from the referee, yes. Cheating? No. Diving is cheating

to be fair this is before i have seen anything on TV. I have seen it now and it was a dive.

justice was done when green saved it. No justice with the handball though apart from we won


Koscielny was 10 million? just LOL

 

[Greenlizard0]

I'm sure that's not right.

Edit - £8.45 apparently. From a mid table League I side.

Considering just how much better Vermaelen is I'm not sure if that makes one expensive or the other cheap..

 

[BaZ87]

I'm sure that's not right.

Edit - £8.45 apparently. From a mid table League I side.

Considering just how much better Vermaelen is I'm not sure if that makes one expensive or the other cheap..

I think he's a bit crap but you can't complain at that price

 

[drunkenmaster]

I mentioned Arshavin above, DM was quoting a post of mine much earlier in this thread.
--
The trouble is unfortunately those price tags were once fine to get Henry and Vieira in, i.e. the world beaters.

You need double or even triple that these days going by the figures that the clubs around us have spent.

Errm, Arsenal ALWAYS sold some of their best players, in the past 4 years, who have we sold that was at the top of their game, Ade/Toure don't really count as their values were stupid due to City being stupid, Ade is turd, Toure has done incredibly well for City(till the diet pills).

Vieira and Henry were sold following a couple poor seasons, and a season too late for half as much as we could have got, Petit and Overmars went a season to early for twice as much as anyone expected. Thats life, and no you absolutely do not have to spend 3 times as much to get the same quality player, you have to spend 3 times as much now to buy a POPULAR player........... you don't have to buy popular players.



I still find it odd that people won't just answer the two basic questions, what exactly is it right now for the club that Wenger is doing thats irreplaceable, do people not think basic things such as selling Diaby/Denilson 3 years ago, saving the probably minimum 12mil in wages in the past 3 years on them both(probably between 2-3mil a year each at the moment) and buying replacements who could, you know, play football would not have improved us dramatically? Do people really think no other managers can play the attack minded football that, 4-5-1 brings us.

Sorry but there are two distinct Wengers, joins as manager to pretty much the end of the 49 game unbeaten run, and that loss to Utd till now. THe attitude from Wenger and the players was confidence, winning, attacking, nothing else. Current Wenger is about excuses, no confidence, a defensive formation, playing extra defensive midfielders, less strikers, etc, etc.

Old Wenger was irreplaceable, why do people pretend Wenger hasn't changed, its so freaking obvious.

Arsenal got Vermaelen for a great price, could have gotten Kompany, who we'd tracked for like 4 years, for all of £5mil, but decided against it because we had Song and denilson for midfield and CB cover, worst decision ever made. One of the most consistant and fit CB's in the world right now, what about Richards, daft power, great at set pieces at both ends, makes things happen, young, could have nabbed him for £5mil, VDV, 8mil, Gallas, free to keep, actually play Vela, free and quality.

Theres dozens of incredibly good deals struck every transfer window, just because a few daft clubs insist on making marque signings doesn't even come close to meaning you're REQUIRED to spend huge money to win a league.

This squad we have right now with better management would have more points, probably one cup and still be in another. Wenger hasn't been good, or helpful, but a hinderance to the club for several seasons now and he's shown entirely no sign of improving, the things that have dragged the team down from where we were 6 years ago, defensive minded formation, packing midfield with worse players, these are the things Wenger is focusing on now. He's getting WORSE, not better.

 

[Caseh]

.

All I want to know is... Why am I still seeing your posts when you are on ignore? I try to avoid your tripe, and the damn forums just won't let me!

 

[jonneymendoza]

Dont get me wrong I think Arsene needs to wise up big time. He needs to realise a lot of things and make important decisions before next season.

But honestly hand on heart I think our outfield first team is as good as anybodies. If we had this team completely fit, then I think we could go a lot further.


Sagna Djouru Vermaelen Clichy

.........Song...............
.....Fab.........Wilshere

Walcott...............Nasri/Arshavin

.........Van Persie..............

We just need to get rid of Denilson and Diaby, maybe rosicky and Bendtner. Then get in quality, our defence is good, especially with koscuielny backing up. Just need another great winger imo and a good replacement for song and then we are well on our way.

I really dont agree that our team is ****. most of teh games we have lost this season (apart form barca) we have dominated possession and shots on goal. We just need that winning mentality and to finish the many chances we have.

So to tell me we are **** etc just doesn't cut the mustard. We have a good team, it is far away from the best team in the world, but with a few tweaks the squad could be really really good.

Wenger does need to wise up, but I do think even if we dont win things in the next two years eventually it will all click, that is why I am patient. I can stand getting in the top four qualifying for the champs league and doing well in it etc. This steady management will pay dividends in the end.

just because we won things, doesn't mean we should win all of the time. Our team was depeleted, it takes time to get a team back to the top again.

I still think if Chelsea hadn't got the money they did when they did we would have dominated the league for the next few years. Its all ifs and buts. But Man United couldn't handle us at the time, they were resorting to kicking us in games and we were getting better and better. Chelsea didn't beat us for years etc etc. We were well on the way to being a dominant force. Then Chelsea got the money and dominated for the years we probably would have done, just bad luck.

We couldn't compete financially with chelsea, Man United or Liverpool. Even Tottenham and other teams, yet we were still one of the top teams in the league and still are.

We have our new stadium, we are now in a healthy financial situation, we have a team that is not far off of being a really good team. So please tell me where the crisis is? tell me why Wenger needs to be sacked? it's ridiculous.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Well firstly I said we had the best squad in the league, so try reading, secondly Wenger is crap, I didn't say the team was, thirdly yes, we have some utterly crap players in the team, if you choose a crap player over a much better player to start, you'll play less well, its really that simple. Thirdly, Wenger has never won a single thing playing 4-5-1, thats your problem, the Wenger who won things was one of the greatest managers ever making a full on all out attack team work.

The problem is, thats not what he's trying to do, and theres your issue, tactics, formations, defence, players we aren't a squad or a team that can play 4-5-1 effectively, at all.

The league is an utter joke in quality compared to 5 years ago, and we still can't win it, Chelsea became a good team, that has NOTHING to do with our decline. Our decline came from letting players go for next to nothing. Diarra who we had on the bench for no reason went to Pompie was brilliant, Real brought him for 22mil or so, and they don't want to lose him because he's a great central midfielder......... the question remains why did we ditch one fantastic young player to keep Denilson in the team, who was utterly atrocious?

ARsenal have gotten worse for these reasons, 4-5-1, more defensive, we've got a team built of strikers and central attacking midfielders, we dropped a striker and have moved Theo, Bendtner, Nasri, Rosicky, Arshavin all out onto the wings, none of them are great on the wing, we lost great CB's and Wenger keeps trying to replace them on the cheap we've got a dodgey right back who consistantly makes huge errors, and he's still in the team, then the mentality, Wengers basically just turned into a loser, that we'll attack them and we'll win mentality has been changed for, "well you're rubbish, but we need another body in midfield because I don't think we're good enough to just attack them" mentality, the club reeks of this. Every big performance its the same story, the same few players saying they'll learn, Wenger saying we'll bounce back and this consistant "we'll win something this year, probably" excuse after we lose.

Just look at the difference in the way Chelsea started playing with the same players, when they lost that winning mentality, the belief they would simply win, a utterly different team.

Not a single one of the problems that have made Arsenal worse is caused by anyone else in the league getting better, we've got worse because we've got worse, the rest is irrelevant.

I DON'T CARE IF WE WIN anything, I just believe, with the best squad in the league, that we SHOULD BE winning things and we entirely do not look like we will.

Spurs may be outspending us on transfer fee's, new clubs looking to build do that, old clubs with an established team thats replaced slowly on the cheap doesn't spend as much. Look at wages we've spent vs Spurs in the past 8 years and you'll see a different story a far less favourable one.

Also yes, we CAN compete financially, Wenger CHOOSES not to, because he's decided his way is better........ despite it not working.

The fact is great managers can get worse and become useless, and crap managers can become great managers, etc, etc, Wengers early success has no bearing, at all, on his current ability.

He consistantly gets EVERY SINGLE BIG DECISION WRONG. Sorry but if your manager gets every single major decision wrong which also leads to losing every important game of the season, who exactly should be held responsible?

Diaby was by far and away the worst player against Barca last season, he played exactly the same completely lazy and useless role this year, starting him was a monumental mistake, you don't go to Barca and play 9vs 11 intentionally......... unless you're Wenger.

Again, I've asked several times in this thread, what LATELY has Wenger gotten correct? What is it he's done in the past 4 years that makes him a great manager.

If we had Spurs squad, I wouldn't be unhappy, they are playing pretty much where their squad says they should, Utd frankly are playing way above where their squad suggests they should, Chelsea, playing pretty well considering half the squad is woefully out of form, Liverpool lately, doing great, Fulham, improving and doing well, West Ham, improving.

Arsenal.................. nope, not improving, at all, going backwards, still, against weakening opposition we are still going backwards.

West brom suck, they try and play attacking football with not a whole lot of quality, the squad is where it should be, Arsenal have a fantastic squad and are failing every time they are asked to step it up, every single time. League position is irrelevant, history is irrelevant, I look at the squads and think Arsenal are maybe the most underperforming team in the league.

Then I look at transfer at the decisions to start Diaby who is so unbelievably bad its a joke, and I wonder if Wengers had a stroke and no one noticed.

 

[FrankJH]

We spent more, on better and more quality in the past. We haven't really done this for a a few years now and so we've dropped down.

If UTD's budget allows them to buy and keep the best, than that would, in comparison to us, be a greater expense.

Arsenal have a huge benefit just from their location - players just coming to England SEEM to want to be in London (obviously you never know for sure but according to the media a lot of transfers have fallen through from abroad because Utd arent based in London).

In regards to your last paragraph - Im not so sure, especially in regards to wages (rather than transfer fee). Utd have always paid relatvively moderate wages for majority of players (admittedly there are a few on £100k+ /wk but majority are £70k or less and thats with 2nd or 3rd contract extension).

Also the attraction of coming to a repeated winning team is probably used to keep wage expectations down to start with, although admittedly Utd are (far too) often ******* with the transfer fee on a regular basis.

Thats life, and no you absolutely do not have to spend 3 times as much to get the same quality player, you have to spend 3 times as much now to buy a POPULAR player........... you don't have to buy popular players.
.

Taking "popular" as to mean " recognised for their skill/knowledge of the game" this is exactly what Arsenal DO need - where they have been falling over for years. Fabulous to bring kids in that no-one has ever heard of /just appeared , but the team/squad HAS to be interspersed with experienced winners as well. Im not saying buy a load of £20m+ players, but buying 2 or 3 would help the present squad onto another (and probably winning) level. Rather than year after year of being "nearly" men.

We have our new stadium, we are now in a healthy financial situation, we have a team that is not far off of being a really good team. So please tell me where the crisis is? .

I will happily tell you

Arsenal have been the same for the last few years - nearly there but not quite and every Summer AW does exactly the same, he gets in youngsters who turn out to be excellent buys for the future but no experience, so all your players have is experience of NEARLY winning something, and personally think thats all majority of your squad is worth. Dont get me wrong, a few players of yours could give a healthy addition to both Utd's and Chelsea's squads and be worthwhile (at prices you paid) because they would then be surrounded by winners and they in turn would learn the skill of winning. I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of your squad start the season with "It doesnt matter what we do, we never win the league/ CL anyway" in the back of their heads (just because its happened so many times in recent years).

I also wouldnt fool yourself as to thinking Arsenal have been a lot better this season, they really havent been but Utd (away especially) and Chelsea have both been distinctly average and thats whats allowed Arsenal to be in the position they are. If the media rumours are true that Utd and Chelsea are going to spend big in the summer, and 'Arry & Mancini (or whoever at City) will probably also - this is Arsenal's big chance to get the title imo otherwise you risk falling away again imo (who knows, maybe even Dalglish will spend big in the Summer as well)

 

[elmuzzy66.]

I wonder how much air time DM would need on talk sports to get his message across

 

[Johnnytoxic]

Did you see Robert Huth pull the West Ham defender in the wall?

Sneaky or what. Suprised the defender didn't make more of it.

I'm a Stokie but even I can't agree with that. Huth is very committed to the cause mind, does what is necessary