Farage

[Greebo]

But this is the point some people don't seem to get. The people at the bottom are already hurting. They're the people that are affected the most by low skilled immigration and this referendum told us they've had enough.

Why do you think the less educated in society are more likely to vote leave?

But is suspect most of the reason they are hurting is due to the uk government and nothing to do with the eu? Can't see how sovereignty helps somebody struggling to live on £70 per week?

And how are they suffering at the hands of low skilled immigration? Cause they are stealing our jobs? I live near a massive factory where the wage is minimum wage or just above. They can't get enough English people to work there and they even have a recruitment office in Poland. Most of their workforce are eu. Point is, if they paid a magic £20 an hour for menial unskilled work that people seem to want/expect then they would be uneconomical and would go bust. Equally without eu labour they would be half the size they are now.

So the jobs are there if uk people want to work there bu they don't, they want more money. That won't change even if we closed our borders. That capitalism for you. People will only pay what they want for products.

Don't even get me started on milk where you can buy milk for less money than the farmer gets paid for it. Perhaps if people were prepared to pay two pound a pint for milk and pay the proper price then wages could increase? Oh wait, people on the lowest incomes still wouldn't be any better off as all their food would cost double or triple.

 

[Raikiri]

There is plenty more inequality in the UK than what you and plenty more go on about, infact i bet there are millions in this country who feel forgot about, what about the poor and disabled of this country, they have been smashed around for years, where is the equality for them?

.

Who do you think are the first to suffer in a recession with 'austerity' and cutbacks? Which we very well could be heading for.

 

[Arazi]

Nice try, but we're talking about something specific here. We can move onto wages once we've done with this bit.

You are citing the words on a currently unknown person that you say was in the remain camp, that they've said we pay £20b a year which is wrong but you took at face value despite accurate figures being readily available but are demonstrably against accepting the input from actual experts.

Why are you against economic and politics experts but are willing to accept the word of some bloke off the telly without verifying what he's said?

Let's be honest, both sides banded numbers around that where false didn't they?

I seem to remember that G Osborne said there would be around a 30 Billion black hole if we leave and he would raise taxes and close services.

Has anyone heard about that since? No, just more ******** like how now Osborne is using the leave vote as an excuse to say he wont hit the surplus he and the Tories predicted for 2020, it is laughable, it was never going to happen.

Did you and others believe him?

I ignored every number or headline i saw banded about on issue after issue from both sides, and still do. I either looked for my own information or especially when it came to numbers i just ignored it or laughed, as we all know, it's politics, therefore scaremongering and lies.

That doesn't change the point that what he claims is not a fact.

Indeed.

TBH calling leave people racist seemed to be the bedrock of the remain campaign sadly. Well that and 'thick' I remember one post in here scoffing at how Leavers probably couldn't even scrawl an 'x' in the correct box on the ballot paper which was met with clucking approval from some. Vile.

That result though. :^)

Yes i remember the posts

 

[Gilly]

Let's be honest, both sides banded numbers around that where false didn't they?

I seem to remember that G Osborne said there would be around a 30 Billion black hole if we leave and he would raise taxes and close services.

Has anyone heard about that since? No, just more ******** like how now Osborne is using the leave vote as an excuse to say he wont hit the surplus he and the Tories predicted for 2020, it is laughable, it was never going to happen.

Did you and others believe him?

I ignored every number or headline i saw banded about on issue after issue from both sides, and still do. I either looked for my own information or especially when it came to numbers i just ignored it or laughed, as we all know, it's politics, therefore scaremongering and lies.

You're not the first to miss the fact that Osbourne said that would be in the event that we leave the EU. Not the result of the vote, but when we actually leave.

That is seeming less and less likely so the markets are recovering somewhat.

 

[Greebo]

Let's be honest, both sides banded numbers around that where false didn't they?

I seem to remember that G Osborne said there would be around a 30 Billion black hole if we leave and he would raise taxes and close services.

Has anyone heard about that since? No, just more ******** like how now Osborne is using the leave vote as an excuse to say he wont hit the surplus he and the Tories predicted for 2020, it is laughable, it was never going to happen.

Did you and others believe him?



I ignored every number or headline i saw banded about on issue after issue from both sides, and still do. I either looked for my own information or especially when it came to numbers i just ignored it or laughed, as we all know, it's politics, therefore scaremongering and lies.

1. Already there is a 5 billion black hole and we haven't even left yet
2. If it's 5 billion now and he a50 isn't even filed yet plus negotiations started, I can easily see that turning to 30 billion when it is filed.
3. Be wether it stays at 5 billion or increase to 30 billion then there will be tax increases. Plus we will have to recruit and train thousands of civil servants to do all the things the eu did but all the while still paying our fees to the eu and it's still looking most likely that if it's some kind of Norway deal, we will still have the same weekly eu payments to make as now.

 

[Jono8]

That is seeming less and less likely so the markets are recovering somewhat.

The pound certainly isnt -

http://www.exchangerates.org.uk/new...s-dollar-exchange-rate-news-and-outlook-.html

 

[Arazi]

Except they are not really being hurt by this immigration that is just a picture painted to make them vote a certain way. It is a trick as old as politics find someone to blame and then rally people behind your cause it works best when those people are a little different to the majority so can be easily singled out.

Really.

So no pressure at all on all public services, NHS, Schools, Housing, which have more of an impact on the poor and disabled and working class compared to the more well off, who watch it all happen and do not care because it doesn't affect them.

They should go and try finding a job? If immigrants with little grasp of English can why can't they?

Hmmm.

 

[Gilly]

Really.

So no pressure at all on all public services, NHS, Schools, Housing, which have more of an impact on the poor and disabled and working class compared to the more well off, who watch it all happen and do not care because it doesn't affect them.

Would investment in infrastructure not be a better way of dealing with it?

 

[a1ex2001]

There is plenty more inequality in the UK than what you and plenty more go on about, infact i bet there are millions in this country who feel forgot about, what about the poor and disabled of this country, they have been smashed around for years, where is the equality for them?

Or is it all about the foreigners\immigrants for you and plenty of others?.

Charity begins at home, help your own first, as in British\UK citizens, no matter what colour they are.

Hang on when did I limit my comment to immigration, farage would be a backwards step for Equality on all levels look at UKIP's record on sexual equality for example? Our nige is no more a man of the people looking out for the little man than any other political figure in the country.

Yes your right that the poor have been ignored by successive governments but that has nothing to do with the EU, quite the opposite this whole referendum farce takes even more focus off things that really matter and potentially gives us an even more right wing elitist party in power who will happily take a dump on the workers at the bottom if it fills their friends pockets.

 

[a1ex2001]

Really.

So no pressure at all on all public services, NHS, Schools, Housing, which have more of an impact on the poor and disabled and working class compared to the more well off, who watch it all happen and do not care because it doesn't affect them.

Again this is deflectionist, the immigrant population contribute more than enough in tax to offset the pressure on public services if our government chose to invest sensibly in areas worst effected. The fact the whole country has those pressures regardless of levels of immigration is evidence enough of the total neglect of these key public services.

But again it is easier for the rich to get richer while they deflect the anger of the working classes onto those pesky immigrants stealing our jobs and blocking up our hospitals.

 

[Greebo]

Would investment in infrastructure not be a better way of dealing with it?

Yep. When you look at out gdp and compare it to how many immigrants we have, we have the biggest ration of any eu country yet we take the least migrants and complain the most that we can't handle the numbers.

 

[Gilly]

Yep. When you look at out gdp and compare it to how many immigrants we have, we have the biggest ration of any eu country yet we take the least migrants and complain the most that we can't handle the numbers.

Plus of course, investment in infrastructure benefits everyone

If we were to stop immigration tomorrow not only would we struggle to cover certain trades and professions but we'd also still have an infrastructure that's not up to scratch. It needs investment anyway...

 

[Greebo]

Again this is deflectionist, the immigrant population contribute more than enough in tax to offset the pressure on public services if our government chose to invest sensibly in areas worst effected. The fact the whole country has those pressures regardless of levels of immigration is evidence enough of the total neglect of these key public services.

But again it is easier for the rich to get richer while they deflect the anger of the working classes onto those pesky immigrants stealing our jobs and blocking up our hospitals.

Again, agreed. This government and previous ones have done a brilliant job in blaming or allowing people to blame the eu for all their problems. Which can be seen that the areas that got the biggest amount of eu money had the biggest leave vote.

The only reason that Yorkshire was getting 600m from the eu was that the eu and targeted that Yorkshire was not getting enough invested from the uk government so it needed to step in and support it. You think leaving the eu will suddenly make Whitehall give Yorkshire 600m instead when it wasn't doing before which was why the eu was?

 

[Arazi]

Several members on here have repeatedly said if a50 isn't invoked and freedom of movement isn't removed in any deal then there will be blood flowing on the streets.

What am I supposed to think that means? They will get together for a cup of tea and discuss how to change things in the future using their democratic vote?

I don't care what you think, you still aimed the post at him specifically because you directly replied to him, you wasn't talking about "other people".

 

[a1ex2001]

Plus of course, investment in infrastructure benefits everyone

If we were to stop immigration tomorrow not only would we struggle to cover certain trades and professions but we'd also still have an infrastructure that's not up to scratch. It needs investment anyway...

Exactly this, all our local schools are over subscribed and it's no immigration that is the problem. We would also see the cost of loads of things shoot up if you removed the immigrant workforce as simple things like carpenters would be in much shorter supply!

 

[The Running Man]

Plus of course, investment in infrastructure benefits everyone

If we were to stop immigration tomorrow not only would we struggle to cover certain trades and professions but we'd also still have an infrastructure that's not up to scratch. It needs investment anyway...

It would give jobs and hope to the future generations at pay that they can afford to live on without relying on the state.

 

[Hades]

Exactly this, all our local schools are over subscribed and it's no immigration that is the problem. We would also see the cost of loads of things shoot up if you removed the immigrant workforce as simple things like carpenters would be in much shorter supply!

I've heard it said many times that we need immigraton because the local population aren't having enough children. Surely that means that without immigration we would have more available school places?

I've also heard it said many times that immigration doesn't suppress wages (not a point I agree with). So why would costs go up of there were less immigration?

 

[Gilly]

It would give jobs and hope to the future generations at pay that they can afford to live on without relying on the state.

What would?

 

[Mauller]

Plus of course, investment in infrastructure benefits everyone

If we were to stop immigration tomorrow not only would we struggle to cover certain trades and professions but we'd also still have an infrastructure that's not up to scratch. It needs investment anyway...

Except it was never about stopping immigration, just vastly reducing the numbers and only bringing in those with trades that we need.

 

[Arazi]

You're not the first to miss the fact that Osbourne said that would be in the event that we leave the EU. Not the result of the vote, but when we actually leave.

That is seeming less and less likely so the markets are recovering somewhat.

Nice way to spin it, so your now saying Osborne can see in the future and predicted a 30 Billion black hole, tax rises, fuel rises and public service cuts but only when we actually leave the EU, and you believed him?

A few links that say otherwise.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...x-rises-warn-george-osborne-and-a7082271.html

"Any Government would have to introduce an emergency Budget involving tens of billions of pounds of spending cuts and tax rises if Britain votes to leave the EU next week, George Osborne and Alistair Darling will warn".

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

"In a sign of the panic gripping the remain campaign, the chancellor plans to say that the hit to the economy will be so large that he will have little choice but to tear apart Conservative manifesto promises in an emergency budget delivered within weeks of an out vote".

And since day one i have said that if we voted leave Cameron and Osborne would be out of a job,

Osborne wouldn't be in his current job to do anything at all when we do leave, so he would have no say in whatever happens, so your point is baseless.

You know full well that it was to scare people who where on the leave side, or those who couldn't decide which way to vote.

I'll take your post as what you intended it to mean, as in taking the urine.

1. Already there is a 5 billion black hole and we haven't even left yet
2. If it's 5 billion now and he a50 isn't even filed yet plus negotiations started, I can easily see that turning to 30 billion when it is filed.
3. Be wether it stays at 5 billion or increase to 30 billion then there will be tax increases. Plus we will have to recruit and train thousands of civil servants to do all the things the eu did but all the while still paying our fees to the eu and it's still looking most likely that if it's some kind of Norway deal, we will still have the same weekly eu payments to make as now.

More speculation

Would investment in infrastructure not be a better way of dealing with it?

There is possibly countless things that can be done to help pretty much everyone, but i am no expert.