FIA Formula E Championship

[Glaucus]

Im sorry Acid, but electric cars are simply not the future. They are just the buzz word at the moment that conveniently fits with the whole 'green' image.

Why aren't the future? They are in the EU 2050 road plan and that is what all the infrastructure is gearing up for, where all the grants are going. There's also no issues with them, they can accommodate everyone's driving distances, despite what some of you think.

Now let's compare that to alternatives like hydrogen, any infrastructure? Any million pound grants for infrastructure? On any of the road plans that have been agreed to? Any car manufactures selling commercial products, let alone pretty much all the major manufactures.

 

[deuse]

Hydro/petrol fill up when needed and electric cars you simply swap the batteries which is actually faster than filling up.

How have you given an electric car an mpg, that makes no sense.

The MPG does make sence because you think it will replace the petrol engine and is better when in reality it's not.

To re-fill a Hydro car takes 4 mins...I would love to see someone change the batts in that time

From Top Gear 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AUurBnLbJw

 

[Glaucus]

Now give those top gear test hydrogen cars and see how well they do.

4minutes, blughhh so long. Battery swaps in under 40 seconds.

And remember this process has been slowed down to allow you to see what's happening

Your going to have to explain mpg, electric is replacing petrol, it's already started.
Electric cars do not use oil, so how do you get mpg.


Edit - so much for not doing this, in this thread.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

most of the world has decided to use electric cars and that is where the governments backing is.

Except that if we produced electric cars at the same rate as petrol/diesel cars then we'd run out of Lithium in 3 months and we're back to square one - but then we'd have no lithium for other devices - phones, laptops, tablets etc.

Hydrogen may be a harder nut to crack but it's a lot more viable than electric only cars.


Still, my next project:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJmUv3P88O4

 

[Glaucus]

That's BS p, the lithium supplies and requirements are in the other electric car thrEad in motors.

That's also ignoring carbon lithium matrix batteries. That slash the lithium required.

 

[Skeeter]

Please dont tell me you buy into the whole 'Zero Emissions' BS too?

 

[Glaucus]

Please dont tell me you buy into the whole 'Zero Emissions' BS too?

Nope, emissions is what ever the grid is made up off.

And you make it sound like I buy into electric cars, rather than it being fact.
Just go read up on EU road maps for energy supply and usage. Read up on all the schemes and grants for recharge points and what is already being installed, when demand is almost non existence. Now wait 5 years and then see what infrastructure is installed.

 

[Skeeter]

Nope, emissions is what ever the grid is made up off. Which is increasingly becoming renewable.

Not quick enough though. To many hippies and there 'nimby-ism' protesting against anything and everything.

The whole Zero Emissions marketing hype the manufacturers are pushing winds me up.

 

[Glaucus]

Not quick enough though. To many hippies and there 'nimby-ism' protesting against anything and everything.

The whole Zero Emissions marketing hype the manufacturers are pushing winds me up.

Actually we are on target for the national grid. In accordance with the EU road maps, despite the silly hippies. Just think how easy it would be with out those set backs.

This is just two of the current development projects underway and again think how much demand there is for it ATM, let alone what will happen once demand grows.

A national network of recharging points at service stations along the UK’s motorways launched today, making it easier for electric car drivers to travel the length of the country.
Clean energy firm Ecotricity teamed up with Welcome Break motorway services to install the UK’s first ‘electric highway’ network which will enable EVs to travel from London to Edinburgh or Exeter free of charge, without the worry of running out of power.
From September, electric cars will be able to top up in just 20 minutes using one of the rapid recharge points powered by renewably generated electricity. Every point is power by Ecotricity’s 100 per cent wind and solar power electricity.

The UK is to gain its first privately funded network of electric vehicle (EV) recharging points, with a staggering 4,000 to be installed by the end of 2012.
Starting in September, leading EV charging infrastructure supplier Chargemaster Plc will launch its ‘Polar’ project, with charging points initially appearing in around 100 towns and cities across the UK.
It is the first time such an initiative has been privately funded and will supplement Government’s Plug-in Places initiative, which currently supports the installation of charging points in eight locations around the country; London, Milton Keynes, the North East, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Greater Manchester, the Midlands and the East of England.

 

[Skeeter]

I like Jay Leno's opinion on it.

Alternative fuels (electric, hydrogen, biofuel, whatever) will do for cars what cars did for horses.

Horses used to be a major form of transport, but the rise of the car mean that horses were replaced as tools and instead are now used for leisure. If everyone driving around in small electric snot boxes to get to and from work means the oil can be saved to keep F1 running every other weekend, then bring it on. Its the blanket sweeping application thats the problem. Electric cars do not lend themselves to high speed high performance motorsport, so they should stop trying to force it.

 

[Glaucus]

What, electric cars do lend them self to high speed sport. Infect much high acceleration and higher rpm. And all the torque from zero rpm. So again I can't see how you can say that. ATM batteries limit the performance. But electric motors have much better weight balance than petrol and with a fuel cell could far surpass petrol cars in the future.

And it's not trying to take over from F1, they are suggesting a support race at the same class as formula3. However once electric cars surpass petrol, then the manufactures will be wanting to switch to electric, anything to beat the competition.

 

[Duke]

I thought 'Oh no ' when opening the thread, but to the fair, this could be quite interesting and different to watch over the years. Hope they get a prototype car running on track to see what they will really be like.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

As long as they keep it out of F1 itself, should be good

 

[Skeeter]

But thats the thing, I don't see F3 style racing as right either.

I'm a massive fan of the Porsche 911 GT3 Hybrid with the Williams Kinetic KERS syetem. In racing formula's based on road cars, or formulas where fuel efficency is a major part, Hybrids and electrics make a lot of sense. GT racing, Endurance racing, possibly Touring car style racing.

But single seater sprint racing, it just doesn't make sense. A flat out blast for 20 minutes using all your stored energy in a car only fit for 1 person and designed soley for track use is a bad place to develop technology aimed towards sustained commuter based travel.

Whist still not in the right area, the Nissan Leaf race car plans carry more merit than this single seater 'thing'.

 

[Skyboat]

Actually we are on target for the national grid. In accordance with the EU road maps, despite the silly hippies. Just think how easy it would be with out those set backs.

This is just two of the current development projects underway and again think how much demand there is for it ATM, let alone what will happen once demand grows.

*snip*

You can't have your cake and eat it.

The majority of our electricity is still generated from fossil fuels. If electricity demand soars due to everyone embracing electric vehicles, there currently isn't a sufficient infrastructure in place to provide that demand in the form of renewable energy such as wind or solar farms. It will take a long while yet before we are entirely non-dependent on fossil fuels for our energy needs regardless of the progress being made in alternative, renewable energy sources.

I'd like to see hydrogen as the future, I really would. However, it's a damn pain to refine the stuff ready for use to the end consumer and is just not cost effective, with no significant breakthroughs in making it cheaper to produce reliably.

I think electric motors have some potential in motorsport, the acceleration aspect is incredible. However, I think a lot of the 'atmosphere' and experience will be lost as they struggle to fill the void left by loud petrol engines.

 

[ng93]

Could they move the battery's into the side pods? They don't appear to be doing anything. Would let them move the driver down and make it look much less fugly.

 

[Duke]

All about the weight distribution - they would be too heavy to have on the sides and would handle much better at the bottom.

 

[Skeeter]

Plus, no driver would want to be sat between 2 500kg battery packs during a crash.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I'd like to see hydrogen as the future, I really would. However, it's a damn pain to refine the stuff ready for use to the end consumer and is just not cost effective, with no significant breakthroughs in making it cheaper to produce reliably.

I think electric motors have some potential in motorsport, the acceleration aspect is incredible. However, I think a lot of the 'atmosphere' and experience will be lost as they struggle to fill the void left by loud petrol engines.

More than anything there is no cost effective method of delivering the hydrogen to the consumer. Hydrogen production (and biofuels as a whole) have become much easier to produce.

100% agree with the noise aspect - would be strange not having the noise factor, but I am sure we could adjust eventually.

 

[malfunkshun]

However you look at it electric vehicles are not the future, maybe a stop-gap but nothing more. The electrical power generation needed to charge electrical vehicles and replace the I.C.E. would not get around the reasons that the brought about the need to replace I.C.E. in the first place. Power generation is struggling to cope with demand as it stands, stick ~35 million vehicles on trickle overnight and things will be grim.

Some numbers...
Total power generation is currently ~21TW/h per year, about 11% of the total solar energy that reaches the very top of the Earths atmosphere in 1 hour. However, accouting for the fact that only half of the Earths surface gets solar radation at any given time, and not making reductions for atmospheric conditions or latitude, the average energy received at the surface is calculated at 342W per square metre, 71% of said square metres being covered by water.