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Fidelity Super Resolution in 2021

Grim5 said:
Nvidia will be releasing a video tomorrow comparing/attacking FSR vs DLSS 2.3

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...3-technology-is-better-than-spatial-upscaling
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Here's my two cents, for what it is worth:

Unless DLSS now suddenly works on all GPUs then attacking FSR is pointless and it really only shows how close FSR is in comparison to AI based reconstruction, to even warrant an attack (referencing the article quote).

Gamers already consider FSR a success as can be seen by wide adoption in games in comparison to DLSS at its launch, and positive feedback from said gamers using FSR, when using GPUs that don't support DLSS ( from all vendors).

Most games won't care if a fence wire in the background has slightly more detail, all that really matters for FSR is wide adoption and good results for gamers looking for extra FPS with small reductions to image quality.

It delivers on that advantage and has no issues with motion that continues to trouble DLSS, despite recent improvements. It will be interesting to see if Intel's solution has this issue, looks like it may not but too early to say yet.

Ultimately, this is just a willy waving exercise to keep the mindshare strong amongst the diehards, but those people would never use FSR anyway so its impact will be minimal in my opinion.
 
LtMatt said:
It delivers on that advantage and has no issues with motion that continues to trouble DLSS, despite recent improvements. It will be interesting to see if Intel's solution has this issue, looks like it may not but too early to say yet.
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Real-world testing vs company demo is always going to be different. That being said, I've never noticed the motion issue in real-world usage, but it seems to be improving with every iteration - the image reconstruction side is second-to-none though. Intel will have the necessary hardware to run DLSS so I wonder how long it'll be before we see Nvidia reluctantly allow it on other hardware.

FSR is good for what it is, probably the best in that technology stack, but it's really just a tactical solution until a) they can develop their AI-based solution, and b) provide the necessary compute on their GPUs (I suspect we'll get this on RDNA3).
 
Mesai said:
Real-world testing vs company demo is always going to be different. That being said, I've never noticed the motion issue in real-world usage, but it seems to be improving with every iteration - the image reconstruction side is second-to-none though. Intel will have the necessary hardware to run DLSS so I wonder how long it'll be before we see Nvidia reluctantly allow it on other hardware.

FSR is good for what it is, probably the best in that technology stack, but it's really just a tactical solution until a) they can develop their AI-based solution, and b) provide the necessary compute on their GPUs (I suspect we'll get this on RDNA3).
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Don’t disagree FSR serves a purpose and it serves that purpose better than anyone thought it would.
 
Don't even know why nvidia are bothering, save it for when amd have something worthwhile comparing to. Even AMD themselves have said it's not an equivalent to DLSS currently....

FSR does what it needs to but it just isn't in the same league as dlss "overall" and so far my experience (with riftbreaker and far cry 6) is that I'll turn it off because it just harms IQ far too much especially in motion when TAA artefacts are enhanced further, however, it's not so bad at 4k where the needed FPS outweighs the issues it causes (wouldn't use anything less than UQ setting where as depending on the game, I could happily use DLSS balanced or even performance at 4k)

People should watch/read the latest comparisons/reviews of the newest DLSS versions, the motion issues are a non issue now, reviewers such as techpowerup, kitguru, oc3d etc. etc. who compare them side by side even say themselves that is nigh on impossible to tell FSR (when paired with a game that doesn't have TAA motion issues) or DLSS apart when it comes to just the motion aspect.

Just out of interest for the ones who won't use/like dlss because "motion issues", do you also turn of TAA in every game as well? Since TAA often has worse motion issues amongst many more downsides than what dlss does.

LtMatt said:
Most games won't care if a fence wire in the background has slightly more detail, all that really matters for FSR is wide adoption and good results for gamers looking for extra FPS with small reductions to image quality.
Click to expand...

Except for ones who like good IQ and don't want to see a shimmering/aliasing mess. That fence detail being better translates to pretty much every kind of edge, try playing RDR 2 without TAA or DLSS or cyberpunk without DLSS, deathloop without TAA/DLSS etc. etc.

Forza 5 is another good example, game looks lovely but some of the aliasing/shimmering it has is awful and very distracting (even with MSAA 8x and FXAA, you can still see it without pixel peeping). Game would benefit so much more from a good TAA implementation or DLSS/DLAA.
 
Grim5 said:
Nvidia are really going all out on the attacks lol

they've also announced and launched ICAT, a new image and video comparison tool that will show you dlss is superior (or at least that's what I assume Nvidia is trying to do)

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-launches-image-quality-comparison-and-analysis-tool-icat

This all seems a little bit childish
Click to expand...
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

Wow Nvdia are actually concerned about AMD.

Competition is heating up boys, strap yourselves in.

Edit: Great comment from the videocardz website

If you need a special tool to see differences, then maybe the competing solutions are not far behind DLSS.
Click to expand...
 
Grim5 said:
Nvidia are really going all out on the attacks lol

they've also announced and launched ICAT, a new image and video comparison tool that will show you dlss is superior (or at least that's what I assume Nvidia is trying to do)

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-launches-image-quality-comparison-and-analysis-tool-icat

This all seems a little bit childish
Click to expand...
As someone in the comments points out.... "If you need a special tool to see differences, then maybe the competing solutions are not far behind DLSS"
 
sparkymark75 said:
As someone in the comments points out.... "If you need a special tool to see differences, then maybe the competing solutions are not far behind DLSS"
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That's the key takeaway, there's very little difference and you have to pixel peep at 400% zoom to see it. That's alarming for a AI driven tech, so let's create a tool to try and make the differences seem bigger.

COD Vanguard even with some pixel peeping I struggle to see a significant difference, until you drop down to Balanced FSR at 4K.

Native > Quality almost doubles your FPS in Vanguard, that's decent. Vanguard 4K Max Settings Natve Vs FSR Comparison - Imgsli
 
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they should improve dlss instead of attacking a blatant sharpening filter algorythm

clearly it still needs work, despite relying on specialized "tensor stuff", the advantage it brings over FSR is miniscule at 4k. and funnily, most people find the DLSS unusably blurry at 1440p and 1080p so its success at such resolutions are also hallow unless you really need the performance

it lets me play cyberpunk with rt on playable framerates at 1440p with dlss quality, but it looks horrible compared to native... i get the blings with RT but then image goes blur. native 1440p looks crisp and clean but then you have to give up on ray tracing. i just can't decide myself. i just can't appreciate the RT for what it is when the image im playing is not crisp at all
 
FSR is awesome in this game , easily as good as DLSS and to my eyes i cant notice any difference between them at all. set to either FSR Ultra Quality and pretty much sits at 60 to 70% gpu usage and FPS stays locked at 116FPS at 4k everything on ultra . Dlss Quality is pretty much identical in usage and how it looks and plays. Hopefully they implement both in all upcoming games as i actually preferred using FSR in The Medium as DLSS had some weird stuff going on in that game but was perfect with FSR . Vanguard has no issues though and both work and look perfect :)
 
Pretty much, it will depend entirely on the game. If FSR is implemented into a game, which has very good anti-aliasing with little to no issues present then FSR is very good so e.g. COD vanguard is a great example of when FSR can be good, however, where FSR completely falls apart is when built in game AA is poor i.e. deathloop is a worse case example for FSR where you can see just how much superior DLSS is without pixel peeping/400% zoom. A lot of people rate FC 6 as being a good example/implementation of FSR, imo, it is awful because the TAA is so poor in that and what people are really finding better is the highly over sharpened end result caused by FSR compared to the blurry/smeary mess of only TAA.... again an example of where most people slate DLSS for ghosting yet somehow, TAA doesn't get the same hate for it's considerably worse motion issues....

There is no doubt nvidia are probably worried about FSR in the future when RDNA 3 arrives so they are more than likely wanting to drag FSR through the mud as much as possible now to ensure it will be somewhat tarnished even when they do have an equivalent to dlss (wouldn't be surprised if amd even rebrand/call it something else since it might not work with any gpus before RDNA 3 due to lack of the hardware support for it?), much like amd/fans did with dlss when it first came out and amd had their sharpening feature, which was far superior than dlss 1.0 (well completely different things tbf though but as per usual, we had comparisons being made between the 2 back then)

dualsense1673 said:
they should improve dlss instead of attacking a blatant sharpening filter algorythm

clearly it still needs work, despite relying on specialized "tensor stuff", the advantage it brings over FSR is miniscule at 4k. and funnily, most people find the DLSS unusably blurry at 1440p and 1080p so its success at such resolutions are also hallow unless you really need the performance

it lets me play cyberpunk with rt on playable framerates at 1440p with dlss quality, but it looks horrible compared to native... i get the blings with RT but then image goes blur. native 1440p looks crisp and clean but then you have to give up on ray tracing. i just can't decide myself. i just can't appreciate the RT for what it is when the image im playing is not crisp at all
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Having played cyberpunk at both 3440x1440 and 4k using dlss, the image is far better with dlss in my experience, I posted screenshots a while back on here and most people couldn't tell the difference between them. Use the latest version of dlss, it is noticeably better, sharper and considerably less ghosting (as pointed out by gamers nexus), you can also add extra sharpening if you really don't like soft images at all but then you get issues that come from over sharpening, which for myself is far worse/more noticeable than a slightly softer image.

DLSS and FSR aren't really meant for 1080P either but if you had to pick, dlss is far better at that res.

Hopefully intel get their version added to riftbreaker as very curious to see how it is and compares to FSR in that.
 
Grim5 said:
Nvidia are really going all out on the attacks lol

they've also announced and launched ICAT, a new image and video comparison tool that will show you dlss is superior (or at least that's what I assume Nvidia is trying to do)

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-launches-image-quality-comparison-and-analysis-tool-icat

This all seems a little bit childish
Click to expand...

I see it as an attempt to educate the plebs...

This is NVIDIA’s attempt to help everyone see the differences between their upscaling technologies compared to other solutions by themselves, but also a tool that can help gamers decide which quality mode is a better choice in games.
Click to expand...

It can be difficult for people to accept change, even when the tech they grasp on to is ~40 years old.
 
tommybhoy said:
Its all good with DLSS being 'better' but hardly anyone can run it!

Where DLSS falls apart is uptake, in the Steam top 10, all of them are FSR capable whereas only 2 have DLSS suport.
Click to expand...

Which top 10 in particular is that? Had a quick look and some do have dlss or/and don't have fsr? e.g. new world doesn't have either to my knowledge? Although iirc, dlss is said to be coming, which will be nice as it's AA is awful.

Doesn't that also come down to each consumer too i.e. most of the games I've played/playing or will be playing in the future have dlss and not FSR e.g. of the top of my head

- cyberpunk
- metro
- bf 2042
- bright medium infinite
- marvel avengers (has FSR but dlss is better here)
- icarus (has FSR and is very good but again, dlss handles edges better and since there is a lot of foliage, this is a big advantage)
- control
- deliver us the moon
- the ascent
- watch dogs legion (although game was **** :p)
- back 4 blood (has both and FSR is very good here but game is meh and not really needed)

To still play (some of these have FSR or will get it but again, given choice, I'll use dlss):

- death loop
- guardians of the galaxy
- dying light 2
- crysis remastered
- atomic heart
- black Myth wukong

Guess the most important point is that dlss is in the games, which really need it i.e. mostly triple a titles. Whilst there is no doubt FSR can be used by far more people, it's not like there's hardly any 20xx/30xx owners... Combined they probably out number all of amds owners... (if talking about purely desktop dedicated gpus)

Wrinkly said:
I see it as an attempt to educate the plebs...

It can be difficult for people to accept change, even when the tech they grasp on to is ~40 years old.
Click to expand...

They need one to educate people who can't tell the difference between RT on and off :p :cry:
 
@Nexus18
Steam hardware survey, only 2 run Dlss and their market share is next to nothing in direct comparison with the whole top ten having FSR cabable support.

DLSS might be marginaly better but can imagine Nv's well ****** that their non RTX users can upscale and had to bring out marketing tools to try and get you to upgrade to their non available msrp RTX gpu's.
 
DLSS is great and all, but it's of no interest to me as my hardware can't run it. It's like me owning a car, and Nvidia tell me how great the cabin service is on their private jets. DLSS is now a niche product in the face of FSR being for everyone, everywhere. Sure, FSR isn't quite as good as DLSS, but it's plenty good enough, easy and cheap to implement.

Are Nvidia worried that the next version of FSR is going to be better than DLSS?
 
tommybhoy said:
@Nexus18
Steam hardware survey, only 2 run Dlss and their market share is next to nothing in direct comparison with the whole top ten having FSR cabable support.

DLSS might be marginaly better but can imagine Nv's well ****** that their non RTX users can upscale and had to bring out marketing tools to try and get you to upgrade to their non available msrp RTX gpu's.
Click to expand...

Is that this list?

https://store.steampowered.com/search/?filter=topsellers

Afaik, BF 2042, outriders, new world and forza don't have FSR?

Or this one?

https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Can't say for certain what games have dlss/fsr there?

TBH, nvidia should be more worried about intels upscaler than amds, since it is likely to be in the same league as dlss and be available to everyone too. The only problem intel might have is adoption rate though unless they can offer it similar to dlss i.e. a simple plugin for game engines, which you can just download and click a few mouse buttons to enable.
 
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