FIFA World Cup 2022 Quarter-Final ** spoilers ** [9th - 10th December 2022]

turbot1984 said:
I was a bit confused by the subs? We were missing a great kick-taker a la Trippier, Mount, Rashford for sure ... maybe one of them on earlier when the French were hacking us all over the place?
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Saka for sterling was an odd one given he was probably our best attacker on the day and sterling did nothing.

We also had grealish, Maddison and TAA on the bench and only grealish got a minute at the end despite chasing a goal.
 
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adam cool dude said:
Southgate is not on the level of Bobby Robson or Terry Venables let alone Alf Ramsey.
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Based off what? Actually look at Robsons England results in tournaments. Just like being levelled at Southgate anyone decent beat us. He also lucked into his Italia 90 formation due to injuries and having to play the sweeper system with Wright.

He only managed to beat Egypt in the group games. Drew against the Dutch and Irish.

Ground out a boring game against the Belgians and then beat a Cameroon team whose star player was about 45 years old. Got beat by the Germans.

If that was Southgate he would get battered.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Based off what? Actually look at Robsons England results in tournaments. Just like being levelled at Southgate anyone decent beat us. He also lucked into his Italia 90 formation due to injuries and having to play the sweeper system with Wright.

He only managed to beat Egypt in the group games. Drew against the Dutch and Irish.

Ground out a boring game against the Belgians and then beat a Cameroon team whose star player was about 45 years old. Got beat by the Germans.

If that was Southgate he would get battered.
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Exactly and Venables only lead the side at one tournament with home advantage and a generational talent in Gaza and the Premier leagues all time top goal scorer at his absolute peak on his side, we produced two decent performances (Holland and Germany) and still didn’t actually win anything!

The fame with France could have gone either way it’s just football sometimes you win sometimes you loose, blaming Southgate is just weird we lost because the ref was crap Harry Kane missed a penalty and the French lad banged in a brilliant shot.
 
Conversely you could say Bobby Robson was unbeaten in 90/120mins matches at WC'90, whereas Southgate lost twice (ignoring the 3rd place playoff in both cases).
 
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C Kent said:
Just pointing out thats a crazy high number of penalties is all :) I dunno, maybe the perception that Lineker could be relied upon more in higher pressure games? Or a more reliable bet to score a non penalty goal when it mattered.
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I rate Lineker but he didn't actually score many non-pen goals in England victories in the knockout stages of tournaments:
1986: Paraguay not a top team, lost to Argentina
1988: No goals
1990: Only non-pen was when losing to Germany
1992: No goals

So basically he scored zero goals (even including group stages and pens) in the Euros, in the WC knockouts the only team his non-pen goals helped us to beat was Paraguay.
 
Mint8 said:
A lot of talk this morning about "young England" having a great future etc - but then you realise Kane is our only really top class English striker - all the rest are 2nd tier at best.....any coming through ?
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This is the worry. He will make the Euros and possibly the next WC but after that?

Brewster has been playing u21s :/
 
dannyjo22 said:
Based off what? Actually look at Robsons England results in tournaments. Just like being levelled at Southgate anyone decent beat us. He also lucked into his Italia 90 formation due to injuries and having to play the sweeper system with Wright.

He only managed to beat Egypt in the group games. Drew against the Dutch and Irish.

Ground out a boring game against the Belgians and then beat a Cameroon team whose star player was about 45 years old. Got beat by the Germans.

If that was Southgate he would get battered.
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Okay here are the CV's of these managers before they took on the England Job.

Bobby Robson.

Ipswich Town
Uefa Cup 1980-81
Fa Cup 1977-78
League Runners up 80/81 & 81/82
(I haven't included the wonders he did after the England job in fairness or the fact he had major influence on Jose Mourinho)

Terry Venables

Promoted Crystal Palace to the top division from the third tier.
Promoted QPR to the top division and FA Cup runner up.
Won La Liga with Barcelona and Champions League runner up on penalties.
Won FA Cup with Spurs in 91.


Gareth Southgate.

29.8% Win Percentage with Middlesbrorugh.

It is a landslide by comparison.

Also when the previous managers were in charge England were not even the best league in the world. Italy, Germany, Spain were all behemoths. Not like now where the premier league is in a completely different universe.

We are winning with Gareth in spite of him due to having an exceptional squad rather than any cohesion or play.

Case in point France were playing with a CB at RB with massive injuries, a 36 year old up top and a very weak bench. We had TTA, Grealish, Rashford, Mason Mount and Trippier on our bench. These are all players with European and Domestic trophies to their name.

I like Gareth he came in a time when England were in turmoil due to a succession of really terrible managers and got the spirit back with England but he has taken them as far as they can go and is actually holding back the squad of players he has. I liken him a lot to Ole Gunner Solskjaer in that respect. Was the right man at the time but took the team as far as he could.
 
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C Kent said:
Just pointing out thats a crazy high number of penalties is all :) I dunno, maybe the perception that Lineker could be relied upon more in higher pressure games? Or a more reliable bet to score a non penalty goal when it mattered.
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this. Lineker didn't win anything either that's a given, but he didn't fold on the big day. Kane fluffed his lines and even as a captain he is questionable, and this is coming from a Spurs fan........
 
What they did before the England job is irrelevant. All that matters is their England record. Southgate despite his relative lack of experience has got us further, consistently than any other England manager. if we look to get rid then it should only be for someone better and I don't see a clear improvement out there. We'd likely have to go back to a foreign manager and our record with foreign managers is not good.
 
Shamikebab said:
What they did before the England job is irrelevant. All that matters is their England record. Southgate despite his relative lack of experience has got us further, consistently than any other England manager. if we look to get rid then it should only be for someone better and I don't see a clear improvement out there. We'd likely have to go back to a foreign manager and our record with foreign managers is not good.
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We have been relegated from the nations league and have lost to any major footballing nation in 3 major tournaments bar Germany last year.

Fifa rankings before the 1996 Euro's had England in 24th place. Holland were 13th, Spain 6th and Germany 2. We were undefeated to all of those in 90/120 minutes whilst being the worst fifa ranked team out of all. Venables excelled with a lower ranked team.

Euro 2020 had England in 4th place. Germany ranked 12th, Ukraine 24th, Denmark 8th, Italy 7th. Gareth were undefeated to all those in 90/120 minutes whilst having the best fifa ranked team out of all. Gareth under achieved with the top ranked team.
 
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adam cool dude said:
We have been relegated from the nations league and have lost to any major footballing nation in 3 major tournaments bar Germany last year.

Fifa rankings before the 1996 Euro's had England in 24th place. Holland were 13th, Spain 6th and Germany 2. We were undefeated to all of those in 90/120 minutes whilst being the worst fifa ranked team out of all. Venables excelled with a lower ranked team.

Euro 2020 had England in 4th place. Germany ranked 12th, Ukraine 24th, Denmark 8th, Italy 7th. Gareth were undefeated to all those in 90/120 minutes whilst having the best fifa ranked team out of all. Gareth under achieved with the top ranked team.
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Rankings mean absolutely nothing so using that as an argument is a complete non starter.

The nations league is a glorified friendly, means nothing.
 
Shamikebab said:
Rankings mean absolutely nothing so using that as an argument is a complete non starter.

The nations league is a glorified friendly, means nothing.
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Equally how far a manager goes through a randomly generated tournament doesn't mean anything. International tournament football has always been like that. I have never watched an England game with Gareth in charge and thought to myself that he has gotten the best out of the team. We have a 80% loss record when we have faced European powerhouses in tournament football. Yet our league is best league in the world and our players are of equal to the biggest footballing nations which hasn't been the case for decades.
 
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adam cool dude said:
Equally how far a manager goes through a randomly generated tournament doesn't mean anything. International tournament football has always been like that. I have never watched an England game with Gareth in charge and thought to myself that he has gotten the best out of the team. We have a 80% loss record when we have faced European powerhouses in tournament football. Yet our league is best league in the world and our players are of equal to the biggest footballing nations which hasn't been the case for decades.
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probably the best league due to massive number of foreign players in the league. We have a good stock of English players but they are not quite on par with those from Germany, France, Italy (nowadays a bit meh!) and Spain. IMO of course.
 
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