Poll: Fight: steven seagal v JCVD - Who do you think would win?

Who would win?

  • Steven Seagal

    Votes: 196 44.5%

  • JCVD

    Votes: 244 55.5%
  • Total voters
    440
I'm surprised how dismissive some people can be about aikido. I've not trained in it myself, but I have cross trained against a couple of experienced practitioners in the past and they were mightily impressive, being able to exert great control and inflict a lot of pain when they wanted to.

Seagal has a genuinely impressive record in aikido, learned the hard way, and I'd give him the win.
 
Castiel said:
Van Damme is not a Karate/Kickboxing Expert, he has a black belt in Shotokan and fought in European competition. He is also a Ballet Dancer (many of his moves are ballet, not martial arts)

Van Damme has been knocked out a various times when filming also.

That is no where near to the level that Seagal has in Aikido (he is a 7th dan Master).
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I wouldn't worry about the dan grades etc... the higher dan grades are awarded for contribution to the art etc... and are fairly irrelevant as a measure of how someone is likely to perform in competition.

Anyway - its Aikido - he might as well be a black belt in origami tbh.... The main thing he's got going for him (or had) is/was being in good shape - being able to apply a fancy wrist lock to a compliant/semi-compliant person isn't going to help much when up against a very non-compliant opponent.
 
meghatronic said:
Right. Thanks for your insight. I can only assume you've practiced in Aikido for decades to comment.
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Why do you need to practice BS for decades to be able to state its BS?

I've not practiced homeopathy or traditional African voodoo for decades but I'll safely state that they're BS without being an expert in either and when I get sick I'll stick to something that's (mostly) been proven to work - evidence based medicine.
 
Freefaller said:
I always thought aikido was a self defense art rather than an attacking art anyway?
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Depends how you're going to define 'self defense' to be honest. Attacks aren't taught from a defending point of you - again, depending on how you define an attack.

dowie said:
Why do you need to practice BS for decades to be able to state its BS?

I've not practiced homeopathy or traditional African voodoo for decades but I'll safely state that they're BS without being an expert in either and when I get sick I'll stick to something that's (mostly) been proven to work - evidence based medicine.
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You raise an interesting point, but you also answered your own question - evidence. Where is the evidence Aikido - as a whole - is ineffective?

You have to consider Aikido's origins (Daito Ryu) and motivations (i.e., you do not 'fight'), in addition to the fact Aikido has multiple styles, and the founder himself varied throughout his life. Aikido towards the end of his life was very affected by religion, and is dependent on 'ki'... There are lots of clubs out there, some bad, some truly amazing and I've visited both.

The principle behind Aikido is movement and balance breaking, how people think this isn't useful in a fight is beyond me. It may not be useful in competitions with numerous rules (even no-rules fighting has rules), but that isn't what Aikido is for.

 
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wing chun > akido granted but don't under estimate how much it would hurt if a man of segals size caught hold of your arm and bent it in directions it doesn't normally go.

Segal would easily take a kick or two and i suspect he has pretty quick reactions.

if segal was smaller the JCVD would annhiliate him with complete ease. but you are talking about kicking a very large man trained in a form of defense deisgned to catch and cripple people.

It's a passive martial art like wing chun you defend until you can do what needs to be done to end the fight.

and end the fight it normally will.
 
meghatronic said:
You raise an interesting point, but you also answered your own question - evidence. Where is the evidence Aikido - as a whole - is ineffective?
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Wrong way around tbh... Where is the evidence for it being effective?

Its like asking an atheist to provide evidence that god doesn't exist when its really up to a believer to provide evidence that god does exist. That's where it descends into BS along the lines of faith, 'my god doesn't want me to test him etc...'.

Ditto with BS martial arts - 'my martial art is teh deadly so can't be used in competition' 'my martial art is about inner peace and chi energy, you misunderstand it if you want to test it'

If I'm going to state there is a purple tea pot orbiting the earth it isn't up to my doubters to prove that there isn't rather its up to me to provide evidence that there is.

I'm naturally quite skeptical and I've not seen evidence that Akido is particularly effective as a martial art - unless you can provide evidence that something is effective then the default position is that it isn't tbh...

(techniques practiced with compliant opponents don't count, showing it to be effective against a non-compliant opponent would support its case - in reality there are more effective grappling styles - Judo, BJJ, wrestling etc...)
 
dowie said:
Wrong way around tbh... Where is the evidence for it being effective?

I'm naturally quite skeptical and I've not seen evidence that Akido is particularly effective as a martial art - unless you can provide evidence that something is effective then the default position is that it isn't tbh...

(techniques practiced with compliant opponents don't count, showing it to be effective against a non-compliant opponent would support its case - in reality there are more effective grappling styles - Judo, BJJ, wrestling etc...)
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Nothing wrong with being skeptical! But you are confusing me, I'm afraid. You say Aikido isn't effective as a martial art, but then mention three sports later on. Effective in terms of what? Defending oneself? Winning fights? Killing people? Avoiding injury?

I'm not sure what evidence you want?

One thing I will say, which probably supports the haters, is the aim of Aikido isn't fighting. If you start a fight - it isn't Aikido. If you injury an oponent whilst defending yourself - it's not Aikido. If you compete - you're not using Aikido. I admit it's borderline bullshido, but Aikido isn't about violence. This, however, certainly does not mean it's "ineffective".
 
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There are martial arts designed for pure self defence to help against attackers in cities where being mugged/attacked is frequent.

People can take it a different way and use it for violence but they'll be shunned by their martial art community.
 
SkScotchegg said:
Also a bit of trivia for you here but most people also dont know that JCVD was the guy inside the predator suit in the original Predator movie, which I think is is totally cool and awesome http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093773/.

Coz that means the final scene was Arnold Vs JCVD!! haha:D
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JCVD quit after 2 days and was replaced. He was never shown on film in any costume as the original suit was scrapped and replaced. According to the very link you provided.

jellybeard999 said:
Cast, but replaced by http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001310/
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Aye.

mysticsniper said:
Not according to Stallone :)

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/seagal-and-van-damme-fisticuffs-at-stallone-party_1058456
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Haha awesome. Seagal may be a 6th dan but his ability is pretty poor today. Even as a black belt it is a basic technique and understanding. While 6th dan takes some understanding and technique to achieve, it doesn't mean his ability to use it against someone is just as great.

Shame Seagal didn't take JCVD up on his offer to settle the scores.
 
If you've ever fought a 7th Dan in any form of martial art (I have), you'll know how skilled you have to be to get to that level.

I practised karate for 10 years, fought in the national team, and the guy we sparred with completely made us (3 members of the team) look silly.

I'd vote Segal.
 
EVH said:
If you've ever fought a 7th Dan in any form of martial art (I have), you'll know how skilled you have to be to get to that level.

I practised karate for 10 years, fought in the national team, and the guy we sparred with completely made us (3 members of the team) look silly.

I'd vote Segal.
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Indeed. JCVD is no more skilled than I am at Karate, Seagal is a master of his art.

JCVD is more Ballet Dancer than Martial Artist.
 
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