Poll: Fight: steven seagal v JCVD - Who do you think would win?
- Thread starter SkScotchegg
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I'm sorry but I can't leave this one here - the main danger with those two are the students actually believing the bullshido they're taught.
I've studied traditional martial arts myself and used to think along those lines - the reality is a bit different.
This pretty much sums up the most important thing:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2068450760833041053#
and the main reason why tai chi and aikido are not very effective.
Yeah but you can only deflect for so long, the longer you do the more likely they will find an attack that works, get lucky/you slip up, a weapon, more hostiles turn up, etc. etc.
Seagal, whatever his personality, is undeniable a master in his chosen martial art, he is also a skilled practitioner in several others.
As for being 'choked' that is not big deal, simply because you are a master doesn't mean that the 'student doesn't put you on your arse' now and then.
Van Damme has been knocked out a few times also, but again that is meaningless.
If we look at the two of them objectively what we have is two actors, one of which quit competition and serious continuation of his art at 22 to pursue an acting career. The other continued to develop his skill and pass that on to several students, two of which he still instructs.
On that basis alone Seagal is the better martial artist. In a fight, who knows, but I would not have backed out of a fight with JCVD 6 years ago, but I would not have done the same with Seagal.
Man of Honour
An Aikido master could potentially deflect the attacks for a significant enough period for the person to tire, attacking being more exhausting than defence usually. However as meghatronic has pointed out it is possible to utilise moves against the attacker to "take them out" as it were - whether that still counts as Aikido in a pure sense is something else.
That's partly what I mean about it having a lot to do with the practioner rather than the art as such. My Aikido instructor was a short balding American who was a bit on the tubby side and I'd have backed him to handle himself against most people - not least because they wouldn't be expecting all that much from him based on appearances.
Aye the most important thing about any martial art is to instill a framework, mental aspect to a confrontation so you have a way to deal with it, and no matter how well you train in a safe environment its likely to all fall apart at the first real confrontation, real experience goes a long way beyond anything any martial art can teach.
I agree with the video you posted, I think its crazy how many people think they can fight because of all the static training they've had, kinda delusional and maybe some go into fights and get hurt because they think they can fight when they really cant.
Soldato
You missed my point - they don't have to deflect all the time (although they probably could). Look at the video.
Soldato
I think its crazy how many people think they can fight because of all the dynamic training they've had, kinda delusional and maybe some go into fights and get hurt because they think they can fight when they really cant. What if the guys 20 mates come and pull out uzis? Didn't train for that, did you *****.
Without watching the video (I know what 'Aliveness' means) you really do not think that the Tai Chi instructor who beat pretty much everyone in our commando unit was actually allowed to do so, we didn't just stand there.
I don't know or care what experience you have, but in a real fight situation Tai Chi and Aikido are simply as effective if not more so than Karate/Taekwondo, due to the defensive nature of the art.
If you study any martial art for it's offensive properties then frankly you are completely missing the point.
Caporegime
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You've posted that video before too. I've never, ever, studied a martial art where it was pure static training. That's not to say you could apply all of what you learnt to a fight scenario, but to state that martial arts are useless is incorrect.
I see that you missed this out too:
How do you explain that?
This 100%
The first lesson in unarmed combat is there are no rules, fight like your life depends on it and the most effective style of fighting is having no style at all.
Martial arts do not make you "hard" or able to "fight".
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Caporegime
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I was always taught that the first rule is run, avoid fighting at all costs. Doubt that applies to MMA.
Soldato
Aikido, like Iaijutsu isn't easy. To do techniques properly can take years to learn. So, you need to role play. In the case of Aikido, it's with a willing partner. In the case of Iaijutsu it's tameshigiri. Of course, the credibly alternative is beating and hacking random people. The Japanese tried that once with POWs. It wasn't popular.
If you think it's all role play, I thoroughly recommend you go along to a reputable dojo and resist techniques. Of course, given instructors don't want to be sued they won't break anything. But you should very quickly see why we "role play". For that, is how you learn.
If you think I'm wrong, why do boxers where mitts? Kickboxers headguards? Man! They're just role playing innit.
Aikido can be quite aggressive and attacking. It just doesn't "look" as impressive as Karate or Taekwondo is all. Too many people basing their opinions on a few classes from substandard instructors at the local leisure centre and watching too many Van Damme Movies. (do you know how many of his moves are actually dance moves!).
Exactly, any Master will have a style and system of his own, almost always based on multiple disciplines and arts.
Martial Arts of any kind do not a warrior make!
Soldato
Erle Montaigue used to have a very cool teaching method that we use occasionally. Put on a white t-shirt (cheap one you don't want) and give a friend a marker pen. Get him to attack you as if his life depended on it, treating the pen tip as a blade (slash) or screwdrive/knife point (stab). First try to run away and let him annihilate you. Then change pen colour and try to defend yourself. Good luck.
Explain what - its an off the cuff story with very little context.
Strange how various professional MMA fighters aren't all bending over backwards to learn tai chi given that it is apparently one of teh deadliest martial arts going. Actually not that strange really as its mostly bullshido....
Soldato
It takes a fair few decades to be any good so I've heard. Mainly as it's intent isn't to fight, unlike MMA.Strange how various professional MMA fighters aren't all bending over backwards to learn tai chi given that it is apparently one of teh deadliest martial arts going. Actually not that strange really as its mostly bullshido....