Fleecehold

[Puzzled]

In that case new estates should not be approved if the infrastructure is not there to support them. Or discounted council tax.

Might make councils think again about some of the ridiculously tightly packed estates being approved planning round here if they had to take on maintaining the infrastructure.

Then again since councils have had to take on the bulk of social care costs they all seem to be completely broke

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Have the 35 households considered forming your own ManCo and take things in-house?

It's a good idea in theory, but it only takes one or two neighbours to decide they aren't paying before problems start.

 

[Pipe & Slippers]

But they charge you full council tax, this current status quo gives them all the benefits of fully charging you whilst not doing the usual work to maintain the roads/green spaces.

If they don't want this, then people on private estates shouldn't pay full council tax.

Current system is council having their cake and eating it.

In that case new estates should not be approved if the infrastructure is not there to support them. Or discounted council tax.

Really? So the people on these estates that pay the same council tax as someone else should expect a lesser service?

We are talking about shared spaces on private estates (?) The Council does not own the land, so why should it have any responsibility to take the burden of maintaining those shared spaces, unless it previously agreed to take them on?

 

[Richie]

We are talking about shared spaces on private estates (?) The Council does not own the land, so why should it have any responsibility to take the burden of maintaining those shared spaces, unless it previously agreed to take them on?

Shared spaces on private estates that the entire public can use, for example footpaths and road that pass through the estate as well as other common areas and facilities.

When we are talking about private estates - we don't mean private gated communities, we are referring to your standard new build style housing developments. What makes them different to other normal estates?

 

[HungryHippos]

Exactly nothing special about them and anyone can/does use them.

It's just councils seeing a way of earning the same money for less work, and developers/management companies seeing a way of fleecing money out of people for minimal work.

 

[Semple]

Who's buying into these?!
Is it a case of ignorance or no choice? It's been awful for decades and only getting worse.

Bit of both I'd say. One thing people were getting suckered into was from the likes of Taylor Wimpey where buried in the small print was a clause about the lease rates doubling every 5 years or something. So they may have looked very appealing at £100/yr, but after 15 years you're now paying £800/yr with the increase to £1600/yr by year 20. At that point mortgage companies don't want to touch them.

Another issue I read the other day about a small group of houses in Wales I think it was - where the freehold had been sold to a company who's not even registered in the UK! Which meant mortgage companies weren't interested, making the houses unsellable. The homeowners were pleading with the council to buy the freehold so that they could sell their homes.

We also live in a leasehold, but thankfully don't have to pay for a management company, or any kind of services. It's solely a ground rent charge - which is still frustrating having to pay the freehold for essentially doing **** all.

 

[BurningHorizons]

It's a good idea in theory, but it only takes one or two neighbours to decide they aren't paying before problems start.

The idea being the ManCo would have the same weight as an external one - in the basic sense that there would be the same legal requirement to pay any monies owed. I've been a director of two self-policing resi management companies and they've worked just fine. Yes, you have the hassle of sorting stuff out yourselves, but you all have collective responsibility, share the work, and cut out the middleman. Equally I can see the downsides if a few players don't pull their weight and you end up in an endless cycle of litigation.

 

[ahar]

The idea being the ManCo would have the same weight as an external one - in the basic sense that there would be the same legal requirement to pay any monies owed. I've been a director of two self-policing resi management companies and they've worked just fine. Yes, you have the hassle of sorting stuff out yourselves, but you all have collective responsibility, share the work, and cut out the middleman. Equally I can see the downsides if a few players don't pull their weight and you end up in an endless cycle of litigation.

Did you have to go after people for non-payment of the management fee? One of the benefits of the management company for my estate is they have their own legal department to go after the couple of selfish ******* who try not to pay each year (and believe me, they can afford it, they're just a waste of oxygen).

 

[BurningHorizons]

Did you have to go after people for non-payment of the management fee? One of the benefits of the management company for my estate is they have their own legal department to go after the couple of selfish ******* who try not to pay each year (and believe me, they can afford it, they're just a waste of oxygen).

Only once in my time but they ended up paying before it went to court. ManCo used solicitors when required, just as an external one would.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

The idea being the ManCo would have the same weight as an external one - in the basic sense that there would be the same legal requirement to pay any monies owed. I've been a director of two self-policing resi management companies and they've worked just fine. Yes, you have the hassle of sorting stuff out yourselves, but you all have collective responsibility, share the work, and cut out the middleman. Equally I can see the downsides if a few players don't pull their weight and you end up in an endless cycle of litigation.

With the right group it would work well, but it's your last sentence, you're now in a situation where you've neighbours threatening to sue neighbours. There's always going to be one or two who are a pain in the ****.

 

[Alibaba99]

But they charge you full council tax, this current status quo gives them all the benefits of fully charging you whilst not doing the usual work to maintain the roads/green spaces.

If they don't want this, then people on private estates shouldn't pay full council tax.

Current system is council having their cake and eating it.

How much of the council tax do you think actually goes into the upkeep of the roads and green spaces local to your house? It's going to be a tiny amount.

 

[Stu999]

Exactly nothing special about them and anyone can/does use them.

It's just councils seeing a way of earning the same money for less work, and developers/management companies seeing a way of fleecing money out of people for minimal work.

Well…not so much the Council’s way as the Government’s way of not having to increase funding to Councils.

 

[HungryHippos]

How much of the council tax do you think actually goes into the upkeep of the roads and green spaces local to your house? It's going to be a tiny amount.

If it's not so much then surely council can eventually adopt them right?

 

[DB_SamX]

My block of flat's leasehold charges are also rocketing (+30% increase). I sent this complaint, and asked for justification two weeks ago. I received a weak response and mulling over what to write back

Spoiler: click to open

I am concerned that the estimated charges for 2024-2025 are increasing an average of 29% when compared to actual charges for 2021-2022 and 2022-2023. I have excluded the actual services charges for 2023-2024 as they are not available yet.



External management



Actual for 2021-2022: £285.80



Actual for 2022-2023: £277.50



Estimated for 2024-2025: £368.80



Average increase: 31%



Cleaning



Actual for 2021-2022: £308.81



Actual for 2022-2023: £274.77



Estimated for 2024-2025: £343.13



Average increase: 18%



Lighting and electricity



Actual for 2021-2022: £29.22



Actual for 2022-2023: £29.07



Estimated for 2024-2025: £43.42



Average increase: 49%



H&S / fire equipment



Actual for 2021-2022: £133.38



Actual for 2022-2023: £313.03



Estimated for 2024-2025: £323.75



Average increase: 45%



Repair



Actual for 2021-2022: £20.40



Actual for 2022-2023: £36.27



Estimated for 2024-2025: £50.00



Average increase: 76%



Buildings insurance



Actual for 2021-2022: £86.45



Actual for 2022-2023: £104.71



Estimated for 2024-2025: £203.90

Average increase: 113%



As you can see, the above increases are significantly higher than what would be considered compared to inflation, and ongoing cost of living increases. The law (Landlord and Tenant Act 1985) states that service charges must be reasonable.



I would also like to query the amount proposed to be charged for cleaning, on the following basis:



Cleaning timetable indicates that the communal areas of my block of flats is every 2 weeks, by 2 people, for 15-20mins each. I have photographic proof of this. This works out as 26 weeks x 2 persons x 20 mins = 17h 20 mins per year of cleaning time. The estimated annual cost for my property is £343.13, and due to there being 5 properties in the block of flats, the annual total is £1715.65. This is equivalent to around £99 per hour! Now I appreciate there are a lot of overheads that need to be factored beyond the cost of cleaning (which I estimate to be around £15 per hour), but the fact remains that the amount I am being charged is 6-7 times what is the base cost. It would be significantly cheaper for the residents to organise to pay for someone to do the cleaning themselves! Again, I insist that these charges are unreasonably high.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

£300 a year? Is that all? Plenty of room for increasing that you'd better get lubed up I paid that in january and I'm already facing another £300+ for the second quarter, over £1200 a year and that doesn't even include ground rent which you can slap on another £100. 1 bed flat.

 

[LeeUK]

I've been looking at a plot on a new build Persimmon estate which is currently being built and I've been told there is a £95.68 per year maintenance charge for the upkeep of the green spaces including a weekly litter pick. The property itself is Freehold. I wasn't told if it increases every year or so but I assume it will like the OP's.

I was told by the sales guy it's because the council won't adopt the green spaces/grass verges, only the roads and pavements. I find this quite unfair as all the older streets and estates get all their green spaces maintained by the council yet new estates still have to pay the same council tax.

Also been told that you pay your water/sewage bill to some company called Independent Water Networks and not to the 'regional water authority' for this area. I assume it's just more people with their fingers in the pie making a profit out of everyone.

Then there's the FibreNest which is the only broadband supplier on the estate!

 

[Mekrel]

I like how the council won't adopt roads, despite charging developers CIL (which lets face it, goes straight into the property price), which literally stands for community infrastructure levy.

 

[Goodie]

I've been looking at a plot on a new build Persimmon estate which is currently being built and I've been told there is a £95.68 per year maintenance charge for the upkeep of the green spaces including a weekly litter pick. The property itself is Freehold. I wasn't told if it increases every year or so but I assume it will like the OP's.

I was told by the sales guy it's because the council won't adopt the green spaces/grass verges, only the roads and pavements. I find this quite unfair as all the older streets and estates get all their green spaces maintained by the council yet new estates still have to pay the same council tax.

Also been told that you pay your water/sewage bill to some company called Independent Water Networks and not to the 'regional water authority' for this area. I assume it's just more people with their fingers in the pie making a profit out of everyone.

Then there's the FibreNest which is the only broadband supplier on the estate!

this is pretty much where I was 5 years ago before buying the property. I’ll try and and add in screenshot from google earth later, the frustrating thing in our case is that the green space on the estate constitutes a small token strip of grass at the very entrance, it doesn’t go any further, to cut it with a ride on mower is about 15-20 minutes and it’s done. It’s definitely set up purposefully to milk a bit more money.

As a poster stated above, there’s also a legal pack that you have to purchase if you’re going to sell. I seem to recall that if you want to make changes to your property (freehold) that they can also charge a fee. However I’m not sure how enforceable that is as multiple people have done a lot of work and nothings come of it.

 

[LeeUK]

this is pretty much where I was 5 years ago before buying the property. I’ll try and and add in screenshot from google earth later, the frustrating thing in our case is that the green space on the estate constitutes a small token strip of grass at the very entrance, it doesn’t go any further, to cut it with a ride on mower is about 15-20 minutes and it’s done. It’s definitely set up purposefully to milk a bit more money.

As a poster stated above, there’s also a legal pack that you have to purchase if you’re going to sell. I seem to recall that if you want to make changes to your property (freehold) that they can also charge a fee. However I’m not sure how enforceable that is as multiple people have done a lot of work and nothings come of it.

Yep I vaguely remember the sales guy saying something about a £250/£400 fee if you want to build an extension or something too even though it's Freehold land.

 

[jpaul]

That would be a good outcome if extensions/external changes were more restricted as a result of covenants you sign for mgmt company (on freehold)
stop these tory no? (but maybe kier would do the same ) 2m extensions etc. - never inspected ours to check such constraints.
(nearby conservation areas might limit building too)

if you actually have non-adopted sewerage infrastructure, & like ours, its a large underground reservoir you could drown in maybe 4x4x3 +ladder +pump that periodically kicks in,
there -is- additional work ... although council do pump the road drains once a year