Football and the Coronavirus

[BaZ87]

You realise not continuing would hurt them more?

It amazes me that people still don't understand this.

Rick Parry was speaking at a select committee this morning and he said the EFL are facing a £200m cash blackhole by September, with further huge debts racking up that will need paying further down the line and also raised the prospect of the EFL not being able to restart next season if crowds are not allowed which in turn will result in further debts. He also mentioned that around 1500 players were out of contract at the end of June/July many who will be facing unemployment and of course if and when clubs start going under, even those under contract will be left unemployed, along with non playing staff. He then went on to say, without directly saying it, that the PL won't be able to rescue the EFL unless they complete their season. IIRC his exact words were something along the line of "the PL will discuss if and how they'll help once they know the situation with their season".

The financial knock on effects of the PL not finishing their season are huge. The biggest, richest clubs will be the ones that survive. It will be the smaller PL sides and lower League sides that suffer the most. I mentioned how the big clubs use the threat of a European Super League to get their own way in the past but who knows, maybe, with clubs going under (possibly all over Europe), the future of top level football will be a European Super League.

 

[omnomnom]

Baz are you an Anfield Wrap subscriber? They had Rory Smith on one of the shows this week who made a good point. Premier League clubs have spent a billion poundson players from the French league in 5 years. Its not just English clubs relying on this money.

 

[BaZ87]

I am but I've not listened to anything in a while. I think rebel made the argument for ending the season so that sides could buy and sell players but as you touch on, there will be little to no transfers if barely any clubs have any money.

 

[the wopster]

Now Club doctors and medics are now getting involved, I really don’t think this season has a chance of restarting
“And now in a new report from The Athletic on Tuesday night, they claim medics at clubs have outlined their concerns to the Premier League in a 100-point letter.

The letter, which The Athletic claim they have seen, is reportedly split into 10 subject areas and within each of them it warns of multiple concerns that medics believe have not yet been addressed, including:

- Approving guidelines that still carry risk of death

- Liability, insurance and testing for players, staff and their families

- Possible transmission via sweat and goalkeeper gloves

- Suspicions that some clubs are already ignoring guidelines

- Increased risk for black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) groups

- Ability of emergency services to attend training ground incidents”

 

[BaZ87]

Very mischievous spin from the Athletic. Club doctors are "getting involved" because the PL asked club doctors to write to them with their concerns as part of the planning process - something that Athletic try to gloss over very briefly in their article.

The Telegraph are reporting that PL think this has been leaked by clubs trying to hold up a restart and stated that only 4 club doctors replied to the PL's request for questions.

 

[the wopster]

Very mischievous spin from the Athletic. Club doctors are "getting involved" because the PL asked club doctors to write to them with their concerns as part of the planning process - something that Athletic try to gloss over very briefly in their article.

The Telegraph are reporting that PL think this has been leaked by clubs trying to hold up a restart and stated that only 4 club doctors replied to the PL's request for questions.

Medical concerns are medical concerns and take priority over anything else especially money

 

[Kenai]

Medical concerns are medical concerns and take priority over anything else especially money

I think you'll find out in the next month or two the point at which 'medical concerns' no longer take priority over money.

Whilst we all like to pretend it's not the case sometimes, money is what makes the world go round and football moves around an awful lot of it.

 

[BaZ87]

Medical concerns are medical concerns and take priority over anything else especially money

Of course they do, which is why the PL asked for these questions so that they can go through them with government experts and provide solutions/answers.

In the coming weeks and months the country will reopen. It's not going to be risk free but the decision will have to be taken because the long-term financial consequences (which in turn will lead to long term health issues) will become greater than the short-term risks. Is it right that professional sport doesn't return when Joe Public is being told the office/shop/factory/restaurant he works at is reopening and he's expected to return or he'll lose his job? The only reasons why it would be ok for professional sport to not return is if it's deemed to be a greater risk that working in an office/shop/factory/restaurant. This is why the PL have and will take all the medical advice and plan for a way that football can return so that it's, at the very least, as safe as you or me going out to work, if not safer. The key question will be whether all the testing and health precautions the League can take (which 99% of other businesses/induestries can't or won't) counters the contact nature of professional football.

 

[the wopster]

Of course they do, which is why the PL asked for these questions so that they can go through them with government experts and provide solutions/answers.

In the coming weeks and months the country will reopen. It's not going to be risk free but the decision will have to be taken because the long-term financial consequences (which in turn will lead to long term health issues) will become greater than the short-term risks. Is it right that professional sport doesn't return when Joe Public is being told the office/shop/factory/restaurant he works at is reopening and he's expected to return or he'll lose his job? The only reasons why it would be ok for professional sport to not return is if it's deemed to be a greater risk that working in an office/shop/factory/restaurant. This is why the PL have and will take all the medical advice and plan for a way that football can return so that it's, at the very least, as safe as you or me going out to work, if not safer. The key question will be whether all the testing and health precautions the League can take (which 99% of other businesses/induestries can't or won't) counters the contact nature of professional football.

The question I want to know is at what point do the PL call it quits with this season, they must have a cut off point in mind as the players atm are likely to need more time to get up to speed than they would for a normal preseason due to how long they have been away from any sort of proper training

on another note we should have a poll to see which player returned the most unfit and overweight

 

[BaZ87]

The question I want to know is at what point do the PL call it quits with this season, they must have a cut off point in mind as the players atm are likely to need more time to get up to speed than they would for a normal preseason due to how long they have been away from any sort of proper training

on another note we should have a poll to see which player returned the most unfit and overweight

The point will come when it's no longer financially viable to complete this season as it will eat into too much of next season. Until they're told that it's not possible for them to return by that point, they have and will continue to plan for a return.

 

[robfosters]

Of course they do, which is why the PL asked for these questions so that they can go through them with government experts and provide solutions/answers.

In the coming weeks and months the country will reopen. It's not going to be risk free but the decision will have to be taken because the long-term financial consequences (which in turn will lead to long term health issues) will become greater than the short-term risks. Is it right that professional sport doesn't return when Joe Public is being told the office/shop/factory/restaurant he works at is reopening and he's expected to return or he'll lose his job? The only reasons why it would be ok for professional sport to not return is if it's deemed to be a greater risk that working in an office/shop/factory/restaurant. This is why the PL have and will take all the medical advice and plan for a way that football can return so that it's, at the very least, as safe as you or me going out to work, if not safer. The key question will be whether all the testing and health precautions the League can take (which 99% of other businesses/induestries can't or won't) counters the contact nature of professional football.

Sport returning could actually be quite helpful as I imagine it’ll keep a lot of people indoors, especially if they can get any game they want on terrestrial or free TV.

 

[the wopster]

The point will come when it's no longer financially viable to complete this season as it will eat into too much of next season. Until they're told that it's not possible for them to return by that point, they have and will continue to plan for a return.

At this point we have to fit a 1/4 of the season into 2 months(with no time for the FA cup or European cups) and that’s giving the players 6 weeks of a so-called preseason if started this weekend, I really don’t think it’s possible.
what the premier league should have done a month ago was paid to rent maybe 5-6 hotels around the country ( which were closed anyway) put all of the premier league players, club staff and officials in them for a 3 week period to make sure they were all clear of covid19 and then once tested at the end of the 3 weeks ban them from any outside contact until all games were played. It means they could have completed all games and not worry about any player coming into contact with an infected person and the season could have been finished with ease

 

[Shamikebab]

Well players aren't slaves, you can't just force them to do that Also what about all the support staff that would be needed?

 

[the wopster]

Well players aren't slaves, you can't just force them to do that Also what about all the support staff that would be needed?

Well if they really wanted to finish the season they would do i it

 

[chroniclard]

Would probably need to isolate circa 10000 people to do the above.

 

[BaZ87]

And of course we still have the neutral venue issue as not all stadiums will be provided with safety certificates at this present moment. I don't think you put much thought into your plan woppy.

 

[the wopster]

And of course we still have the neutral venue issue as not all stadiums will be provided with safety certificates at this present moment. I don't think you put much thought into your plan woppy.

If the premier league had put that in place a month ago for instance within distance of the neutral grounds they could disregard the concerns about medical reasons, it’s not that hard when you think about it, there were options there but the PL seem incapable of making the hard decisions

 

[BaZ87]

If the premier league had put that in place a month ago for instance within distance of the neutral grounds they could disregard the concerns about medical reasons, it’s not that hard when you think about it

I don't entirely understand what you've just said

Clubs that are at risk of being relegated will use any excuse to prevent the season resuming. First we had Karen Brady being a shameless hypocrite with her stuff about the NHS etc and now clubs at the bottom of the table are objecting for 'sporting integrity' reasons because games cannot be played at all stadiums. Whether this happened a month ago or in a months time, the likes of West Ham would still look for any reason to save their own skin.

On a side point, I'm not sure how next season could start anytime soon if this season cannot be completed. Steve Parish spoke about the likelihood that next season would also have to begin at neutral venues (and then revert back to home stadiums & crowds if and when possible) and until we have a vaccine the health issues will still remain.

 

[the wopster]

I don't entirely understand what you've just said

Clubs that are at risk of being relegated will use any excuse to prevent the season resuming. First we had Karen Brady being a shameless hypocrite with her stuff about the NHS etc and now clubs at the bottom of the table are objecting for 'sporting integrity' reasons because games cannot be played at all stadiums. Whether this happened a month ago or in a months time, the likes of West Ham would still look for any reason to save their own skin.

On a side point, I'm not sure how next season could start anytime soon if this season cannot be completed. Steve Parish spoke about the likelihood that next season would also have to begin at neutral venues (and then revert back to home stadiums & crowds if and when possible) and until we have a vaccine the health issues will still remain.

The thing is you could start next season in neutral venues because everyone starts off on the same footing which no advantage/disadvantage.
I understand where the relegation teams are coming from look at it this way if Liverpool and city were on the same points with the 9 games left, Liverpool had 5 home games left and city had 4 home games left, you wouldn’t be too happy either as your home advantage to winning the title would be gone, and don’t say it wouldn’t matter as there have been times at home this season when Liverpool have really needed the fans to pull out a home win.

 

[BaZ87]

The thing is you could start next season in neutral venues because everyone starts off on the same footing which no advantage/disadvantage.
I understand where the relegation teams are coming from look at it this way if Liverpool and city were on the same points with the 9 games left, Liverpool had 5 home games left and city had 4 home games left, you wouldn’t be too happy either as your home advantage to winning the title would be gone, and don’t say it wouldn’t matter as there have been times at home this season when Liverpool have really needed the fans to pull out a home win.

How would starting next season at neutral venues but ending the season at home stadiums be any different to the situation now? It's exactly the same, just in reverse. You're going to end up with some sides having less home games than others and vice versa. Brighton's concerns about the difficulty of remaining home/away games will still stand - next season Brighton might play 'away' to Liverpool at a neutral venue and a rival of theirs have to play Liverpool at Anfield with a crowd.

There is absolutely some validity to the concerns being raised as general points but when you look at the specifics of the bottom 6's concerns, of the 6 sides that are in the relegation fight, only Villa are being disadvantaged as they have 6 remaining home games compared to 5 for the others. Brighton will argue that they have a disproportionate number of harder home games (which will become even harder) but the flip side of that is they have easier home games that are now even easier. Steve Parish also made the point on Sky yesterday that sometimes timings of games are a bit of a lucky dip and no opposition is ever the same for all 19 teams - you'll have injuries, teams with more or less to play for at different points in the season and so on.