Football Banter Thread

Shamikebab · 14 Sep 2023 at 22:58

He was great for the first few seasons, one of the top defenders in the league. Same for England, he's been in the team of the tournament at both the Euros and World Cup. But now his confidence looks absolutely shattered, he has the yips basically. Unfortunately he's probably still starting for us next match because it's him or Evans.

Fubsy · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:01

Which is precisely why he should have left. Badly advised and his determination to prove us all wrong is counterproductive if he doesn't pull it off. I hope he does, but there's every chance it will just keep going wrong and I wouldn't be putting my faith in him at this point - the fans feel this, other teams included, hence the jeering, booing and general delight of opposition when he comes on the pitch.

Edit: you could see the delight of Arsenal fans when he came on the other week. It was a lift. That's hard to shake off.

Shamikebab · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:03

I think he should have left, but then he has every right to say you gave me the contract why should I take a pay cut? It still doesn't justify abusing him.

Fubsy · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:05

Shamikebab said:
I think he should have left, but then he has every right to say you gave me the contract why should I take a pay cut? It still doesn't justify abusing him.

Then the counter to that is "well, you can stay, but no longer captain or a first team starter", the message was clear. Why be stubborn about it and be all pickachu faced surprised when you're put under pressure to justify the decision to stay?

Edit, again: I don't actually think being jeered, booed or laughed at by opposition fans is abuse, it's the reality of not being on the level required for a long period of time while the national manager pretends everything is fine.
He's not having bricks thrown at him, pizza hut adverts or effigies being burned.

Shamikebab · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:13

I mean he literally had a bomb threat at his home last year, it's a bit more than just a bit of jeering. It's persistent abuse on social media, jeering/booing from the minute he steps on the field. That is clearly not on.

And Maguire seems happy to stay and fight for his place, he's been nothing but professional about it. Didn't throw a fuss when he was dropped or lost the captaincy.

Personally I think booing is never on unless someone has done something unprofessional/extreme (like say refusing to come on when asked, calling the fans ****, raping someone or kicking an animal as a non-equal variety)

omnomnom · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:15

Fubsy said:
Then the counter to that is "well, you can stay, but no longer captain or a first team starter", the message was clear. Why be stubborn about it and be all pickachu faced surprised when you're put under pressure to justify the decision to stay?

Edit, again: I don't actually think being jeered, booed or laughed at by opposition fans is abuse, it's the reality of not being on the level required for a long period of time while the national manager pretends everything is fine.
He's not having bricks thrown at him, pizza hut adverts or effigies being burned.

Why is it always on the player to take a pay cut and not the club to pay what is owed?

You are talking significant amounts when it comes to wages, he owes United absolutely nothing.

I believe they will also have this issue with Sancho and the same argument applies.

Fubsy · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:25

omnomnom said:
Why is it always on the player to take a pay cut and not the club to pay what is owed?

You are talking significant amounts when it comes to wages, he owes United absolutely nothing.

I believe they will also have this issue with Sancho and the same argument applies.

He's not performing. He's not worth the wages currently. Yes that's the club's fault (everyone knows United are poor on this front), but not performing should have consequences, like, maybe not being selected for the national team. That then gives the player something to think about when out of favour at a club, and a pay cut could help get back into form and be in the national team on merit and not just have Southgate selecting favourites.

Sancho isn't performing either. Maybe offering big contracts to these players needs to end, there seems to be a bit of a trend forming.

Trusty · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:31

Clearly the jeering isn't going to stop, reckon it'll get worse for him as well from opposition fans now his mum spoke. Easy target, potential goal for your team every time he comes on the pitch, yeah that ain't stopping. :cry:

Don't think you'll find anyone in this thread that thinks bomb threats (i never knew that) and death threats are ok though.

Fubsy · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:38

On the being professional point; that is the absolute minimum expectation from a professional footballer. I'm sure Bebe and Djemba Djemba were professional, didn't make them quality footballers.

That's what makes the Sancho situation so much worse than Maguire. But then Sancho isn't being called up by Southgate and thrust into a cauldron of hostile William Wallace impersonators.

Vandle · 14 Sep 2023 at 23:45

Agree, its only going to get worse for him. Especially now as his mother has gone to the papers or whatever. I think as paying customers the Man Utd fans have every right to show their distain if he's on the pitch and they don't want him there. Similarly its the right of opposition fans to try and unstabilise the team and if that is jeering him as Scotland did the other night then so be it. Footballers know what they are getting in for, they are all fair game on the field. The off the pitch stuff is awful though but its so easy to do these days.
He's handled it all very well mind and I can see what Southgate is doing, trying to build his confidence by getting him out there but it backfired spectacularly the other night and there doesn't seem to be much of a way back for him unless injuries force him back into the clubs starting line up and he can gain a bit of form. Don't blame him for not leaving, even if WHU would have matched his salary. Contracts work both ways, unbelievable those that say "he should have left"

Vandle · 15 Sep 2023 at 00:32

That BBC predictor thing with Chris Sutton is just getting dafter and we are only 4 games in. Actually scared to imagine what they'll be dragging in come April. Maybe one them fake ET things shipped in from Mexico, been a Man Utd fan its entire life of course, despite being dead for 3,000 years.

Sutton's Premier League predictions v Midas the Jagaban

BBC Sport football expert Chris Sutton takes on Afro-pop star Midas the Jagaban for this weekend's Premier League games.

www.bbc.com

shipinabottle · 15 Sep 2023 at 00:58

Two points here for me that most people here seem absurdly to make...

Clubs can make decisions based on money, however players can't when they have a contract? Nonsense.

Abuse... being paid millions does not give cart blanche to persistent abuse through booing and derision.

It's 2023... kissing people unwarrantedly, causing mental distress over their work/career is not on. If this was any other job rather than a sport people would be facing police interventions for harassment. But because there's sense of ownership from the fans they feel it's 'okay' because they pay his wages and from other fans it's a value of 'well he can cry into his millions'.

There's a person here, millions don't block out emotions and how many tragic cases do we have to witness of spotlight celebrities breaking down before enough is enough. As dramatic as Shami makes it, it's true... you'll all be happy to take your laughs until some poor player who has too much going on, gets abused and then takes their own life.

Unfortunately you're part of the problem (along with the media) if you think the above is okay.

I'm not a fan of Maguire, I don't agree with his decision, but it's his at the end of the day. I can reflect on what I think he should do and what I think of his performances but calling him X and then harassing him is not on. It starts in here or in the conversations we have, it goes to the stands and then to attacks like threats etc.

Sod that, people should grow up and get with the times.

Fubsy · 15 Sep 2023 at 01:32

Why pay big money for players then if you expect no return? If it were any other job, he'd have been put on a PIP and Sancho would be on a AIP and PIP. Why are footballers allowed to get away with poor performance and/or application? With big money comes big expectations.

They cannot be immune from any and all criticism, it's not realistic. Both players have valid reasons to currently have questions hanging over them. It's not manifested itself out of thin air.

The problem here, is because of the millions of £s, no one can relate to these people! It's then easy to abuse and harass as they are not seen as a normal person.

You are right though, if United wanted rid they should have stumped up the money to buy out his contract.

Edit: it's not down to the players to manage this. It's the club's. What a surprise that both these players play for the comedy club. Honestly ashamed of the way it treats players, the fans, it's managers, it's legacy.

Trusty · 15 Sep 2023 at 15:40

shipinabottle said:
Two points here for me that most people here seem absurdly to make...

Clubs can make decisions based on money, however players can't when they have a contract? Nonsense.

Abuse... being paid millions does not give cart blanche to persistent abuse through booing and derision.

It's 2023... kissing people unwarrantedly, causing mental distress over their work/career is not on. If this was any other job rather than a sport people would be facing police interventions for harassment. But because there's sense of ownership from the fans they feel it's 'okay' because they pay his wages and from other fans it's a value of 'well he can cry into his millions'.

There's a person here, millions don't block out emotions and how many tragic cases do we have to witness of spotlight celebrities breaking down before enough is enough. As dramatic as Shami makes it, it's true... you'll all be happy to take your laughs until some poor player who has too much going on, gets abused and then takes their own life.

Unfortunately you're part of the problem (along with the media) if you think the above is okay.

I'm not a fan of Maguire, I don't agree with his decision, but it's his at the end of the day. I can reflect on what I think he should do and what I think of his performances but calling him X and then harassing him is not on. It starts in here or in the conversations we have, it goes to the stands and then to attacks like threats etc.

Sod that, people should grow up and get with the times.

Are you suggesting opposition fans shouldn't shout such things like slabhead at Maguire when he's on the pitch?

fez · 15 Sep 2023 at 16:01

shipinabottle said:
It's 2023... kissing people unwarrantedly, causing mental distress over their work/career is not on. If this was any other job rather than a sport people would be facing police interventions for harassment. But because there's sense of ownership from the fans they feel it's 'okay' because they pay his wages and from other fans it's a value of 'well he can cry into his millions'.

The issue I have with this argument is that life is not easy and it doesn't revolve around you. The binman can't go and say to his boss "my salary isn't enough to live the lifestyle that will keep me happy and stress free so can I have a payrise". I can't decide what time I go into work. I can't decide what work I am given. My work is stressful at times. I'm not saying you should be sexually harassed at work but I am saying that if you can't stand the heat of a job, get out of the kitchen. My brother worked at goldman sachs for years and the new grads were having a whinge about the work hours and stress and they basically turned around and said "we pay you well, you work long hours and the work is stressful but if you don't like it, theres the door".

Almost every job and every career has its downsides and if you are very lucky those downsides are compensated for. Its like people who go off work for stress when the job is fundamentally stressful. Being a professional footballer is a career almost everyone would love to have. There are downsides but man do the upsides more than make up for it.

People seem to forget the fact that most people are indifferent to their jobs at best and most are thoroughly miserable when they're at work. We aren't all respected by our boss, our clients etc. We don't get paid a good salary. We work long hours for crap pay. When footballers are complaining about their mental health and taking home more in a week than some earn in a decade (just 500x the salary eh) it doesn't garner much sympathy.

dannyjo22 · 15 Sep 2023 at 16:21

Pigeon_Killer said:
Maguire has to take a lot of the blame, he's been abysmal for his club, got dropped and refused to leave,

He will leave, he just want's what he was contracted in wages. I don't blame him.

omnomnom said:
Why is it always on the player to take a pay cut and not the club to pay what is owed?

You are talking significant amounts when it comes to wages, he owes United absolutely nothing.

I believe they will also have this issue with Sancho and the same argument applies.

Agreed and the fans want to hate on him because he won't do them a favour and leave while losing money. **** them. Perhaps they should chip in and pay some of it off, instead they want to bully him out of the club at his expense. He didn't chase Manu down, they chased him down and offered the contract, as they did badly with Sancho, Sanchez and countless other poor buys that then left at a massive loss. If they want him gone badly enough, pay him up.

fez · 15 Sep 2023 at 17:03

dannyjo22 said:
He will leave, he just want's what he was contracted in wages. I don't blame him.

Agreed and the fans want to hate on him because he won't do them a favour and leave while losing money. **** them. Perhaps they should chip in and pay some of it off, instead they want to bully him out of the club at his expense. He didn't chase Manu down, they chased him down and offered the contract, as they did badly with Sancho, Sanchez and countless other poor buys that then left at a massive loss. If they want him gone badly enough, pay him up.

And you don't think there is any obligation from the players here to give their all when they are hundreds of thousands a week?

dannyjo22 · 15 Sep 2023 at 18:08

fez said:
And you don't think there is any obligation from the players here to give their all when they are hundreds of thousands a week?

And that’s the point, we don’t know. Perhaps they just aren’t good enough, perhaps they have been demotivated by the manager and how he handled and spoke to and about them. They still shouldn’t just leave when the fans just want them too.

Who exactly has the manager made better in this squad? The list is not exactly long.

fez · 15 Sep 2023 at 23:31

My manager is a meanie doesn’t cut it on the excuses front when you are paid hundreds of thousands a week to kick a football.

GarethSouthgate · 16 Sep 2023 at 00:04

Shamikebab said:
And being booed every time you touch the ball? (that was happening in ******* preseason for god's sake)
How about being mocked in goverments?

I don't even like Maguire but the treatment he's got has been abysmal, it's the worst I've ever seen a footballer get outside of short term stuff like Beckham after the world cup red card.

Nah, **** him, greedy **** can **** off. I'll be booing at the TV screen nevermind in person