Ford GT Mk2

[Jumper118]

No they wouldn’t, the batteries are what gives cars lower centre of anyway.

they are also a dead weight when it runs out of charge after 10 miles

Those might be the characteristics desired by people whose closest experience will be a poster or a desktop background but is that what the people actually digging their hands in their pockets for million dollar cars want?

they want it to hold value while parked ion a garage in london while they get driven round in the roller or look cool and have a nice badge depending on whether they are a footballer or an oil tycoon

 

[Kenai]

they are also a dead weight when it runs out of charge after 10 miles

Fairly sure that's not how they work

 

[Flibster]

I just see the back of the car and think of this!

Oh god... cannot be unseen!

 

[Conscript]

they are also a dead weight when it runs out of charge after 10 miles

This only backs up my point. You're judging them as if they were traditional hybrids, built with the aim of increasing economy, rather than the aim of extracting as much raw performance from the technology as possible. Of course they would run out of charge if you ran them in electric only mode for 10 miles, but who spends a million quid on a car like this to drive like that aside from to try it out once or twice?

When McLaren start boasting about the battery range of the P1 like its some sort of practical selling point, then you can start equating them to a Prius. Until then, it remains a silly comparison to draw.

Oh, and all your points about the cars being nothing but investments or garage queens are hardly fair criticisms of the "holy trinity" given that it's not a phenomenon limited to hybrid cars (911R anyone?). And the fact that they are easier to drive than their more analogue predecessors makes it more likely that they're limits can be explored by some buyers. But even if not, the "too easy to drive" criticism could be leveled at any modern hyper car, regardless of its power train...and as Kenai said, who are you to say that what you want from a hyper car is in any way the same as what the people who are actually buying these cars want?

 

[Housey]

A hearty debate, good

I know a few people getting them, won't be till later next year in Europe I believe so guess I can ask the owners...once they have got over their buyer justification phase which for such cars is usually as follows..

1: "I can't wait, this is going to be epic!"
2: Months of posting road tests, positive reviews, news about overs
3: Day of collection, "this is the greatest car I have ever driven!!"
4: 15 pages about each component being the best ever and why and how the.0000005th of a second improvement around the Ring is SO obvious
5: Then a few weeks of "I would never sell this for 3 times what I paid"
6: Then a post from someone saying "Oi John, isn't that your car for sale at Romans"
7: Followed by a "here is my new emperors new clothing, this one is THE BEST"
8: Followed by "I made 300K on the Ford"

THIS is the modern supercar buyer in the main

About 2 years later you get the real story.

 

[Jumper118]

This only backs up my point. You're judging them as if they were traditional hybrids, built with the aim of increasing economy, rather than the aim of extracting as much raw performance from the technology as possible. Of course they would run out of charge if you ran them in electric only mode for 10 miles, but who spends a million quid on a car like this to drive like that aside from to try it out once or twice?

When McLaren start boasting about the battery range of the P1 like its some sort of practical selling point, then you can start equating them to a Prius. Until then, it remains a silly comparison to draw.

Oh, and all your points about the cars being nothing but investments or garage queens are hardly fair criticisms of the "holy trinity" given that it's not a phenomenon limited to hybrid cars (911R anyone?). And the fact that they are easier to drive than their more analogue predecessors makes it more likely that they're limits can be explored by some buyers. But even if not, the "too easy to drive" criticism could be leveled at any modern hyper car, regardless of its power train...and as Kenai said, who are you to say that what you want from a hyper car is in any way the same as what the people who are actually buying these cars want?

it cant even do 1 lap of the nurburger ring on full power. its a joke

 

[Conscript]

How many times does it need to be explained to you that they arent using hybrid powertrains to increase range or economy? What arbitrary distance must a hypercar be able to travel at maximum attack in order for it not to be considered a "joke"? A Chiron would barely make it 40 miles at full power, would you call that a joke as well?

You said yourself earlier that hypercars should be about being utterly crazy with no regard to practicality, yet here you are criticising one which arguably has one of the most advanced and ludicrous powertrains in the world becuase the downside of that power is that it cant be maintained for the length of a particular circuit. Who cares?

 

[Jumper118]

How many times does it need to be explained to you that they arent using hybrid powertrains to increase range or economy? What arbitrary distance must a hypercar be able to travel at maximum attack in order for it not to be considered a "joke"? A Chiron would barely make it 40 miles at full power, would you call that a joke as well?

You said yourself earlier that hypercars should be about being utterly crazy with no regard to practicality, yet here you are criticising one which arguably has one of the most advanced and ludicrous powertrains in the world becuase the downside of that power is that it cant be maintained for the length of a particular circuit. Who cares?

Cos it says on the box it has 900hp when it really only has 700hp + a giant dead weight when it runs out of juice. My point is that they would be better without the hybrid bit. It adds nothing but a gimmick like a prius. It takes away while making you think you got something better when really it's a pile of poo. The amount of money they put into these systems and then put out such a pos product is quite impressive really.

The chiron has 100% of its 1500hp for all 40miles then stops. That is just how it should be. An all electric car would be better. Mixing the two things together just doesn't work and the end result is a massively comprised car. The P1 is like a mp4 12c with rgb lights on it. The rgb lights are pointless and add extra weight.

Actually it's kind of like an amd Vega. Says it boosts to 1600mhz but actually runs at 1470mhz cos it can't keep up with itself.

 

[Simon]

You do realise that when you brake the batteries charge up right ?

 

[Conscript]

Cos it says on the box it has 900hp when it really only has 700hp + a giant dead weight when it runs out of juice. My point is that they would be better without the hybrid bit. It adds nothing but a gimmick like a prius. It takes away while making you think you got something better when really it's a pile of poo. The amount of money they put into these systems and then put out such a pos product is quite impressive really.

The chiron has 100% of its 1500hp for all 40miles then stops. That is just how it should be. An all electric car would be better. Mixing the two things together just doesn't work and the end result is a massively comprised car. The P1 is like a mp4 12c with rgb lights on it. The rgb lights are pointless and add extra weight.

Given that it's the hybrid drive system which helps the car achieve these ludicrous performance stats, it quite objectively is not pointless, nor massively compromised. As Simon said, it's like you think that the car drains it's battery, then switches to the petrol engine and just drags the motors/battery around. It doesn't - the car uses the electric motor to supplement the torque requirements where the petrol engine is lacking, and energy can be recycled through regenerative braking to charge the batteries again.

But I guess further debate with someone who describes the P1/LaF/918, arguably the pinnacle of road going performance technology, as "pieces of ****" is ultimately pointless. You don't like hybrids, fine, but your hyperbole is unwarranted.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Even the ampera will never fully be empty. Saves 10% for high demand and launch as it regenerates once at desired speed to recover that buffer. Same with all. Even my 1litre + 13bhp KERS Honda does it.

Drive an i8 and you will get it then turn the wick up by a factor of 3 for the hyper stuff. It’s insane I imagine. Look at what the K Regara has done.

Don’t really to explain it anymore than that as if you don’t get it you never will which makes trying to explain a waste of people’s time.

Doesn’t matter really as they are market place choices from the companies selling for money or halo PR products. Legislation has prevented the older powertrain in the main: not “tax dodges”.

 

[Nasher]

No they wouldn’t, the batteries are what gives cars lower centre of anyway.

For cars like the NSX, where the batteries are for added performance rather than the main source of power yea. But in regular EVs (like the i3 etc) they are very top heavy.

 

[Cleisthenes]

For cars like the NSX, where the batteries are for added performance rather than the main source of power yea. But in regular EVs (like the i3 etc) they are very top heavy.

Interesting forum posts here: http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1751

Most specifically this from one user: "The subject came up at a BMW i3 event I attended a number of months ago, if my memory isn't faulty I believe the rep quoted the CG at 18.5 inches. He also was very specific that it was the lowest CG of any production vehicle over 60 inches in height."

So maybe not so top heavy.

 

[Nasher]

Well it handles like it's top heavy, really poor.

But BMW also claim it's nearly as fast as an M3 in a straight line, which we know is BS

 

[Housey]

I like V10's as they make pops and bangs and sound great in tunnels. Dying breed but all the better for being the last of a kind.

 

[Lashout_UK]

Those complaining about it being a V6 need to bear in mind that the car was developed for Le Mans - and to be eligible for the GTE class its engine has to displace under four litres, which is why it ended up with a V6. It was, after all, developed as a race car first.

Packaging and aero also favoured the V6, while development costs for anything else would have likely been excessive (e.g. a small displacement V8. They already had a proven twin-turbo V6, so might as well use it)...

 

[MikeTheNative]

It's a throwback to GT1 days where manufacturers built a race car then to get it past homologation stuck some indicators on it and 'sold' about 5 of them to the board of the company. Ford's intention was to win Le Man and whether you think they cheated or not, I think they did, they accomplished that.

 

[Housey]

I've never really considered it as a homologation special built to win at Le Mans. Guess that's where I'm going wrong. I have always viewed it as a new interpretation of the last one, which was the new interpretation of the first one. Reality is that this one and original GT40 have more in common than the last one, which was purely a road car design to mimic the design queues of the original.

 

[Kenai]

You do realise that when you brake the batteries charge up right ?

I thought the P1 didn't have regenerative braking? It tops the battery up using the engine whenever the engine isn't under full power demand

 

[Conscript]

I thought the P1 didn't have regenerative braking? It tops the battery up using the engine whenever the engine isn't under full power demand

Correct, I think;

The engine-mounted electric motor also sharpens the seven-speed dual-clutch gearbox by producing negative torque at the point of shift, making the engine revs drop as quickly and efficiently as possible to achieve faster upshifts. Sounds punchy. When off-throttle, the electric motor also provides additional drag torque, recovering energy to the battery.

https://jalopnik.com/this-is-how-the-techno-fabulous-mclaren-p1-makes-903-hy-294642750

It's not technically speaking regenerative braking no, as it's not controlled by the application of brakes, but it occurs as a result of being off power - which would happen when braking. Regardless, the end result is the same - the car has the capacity to recharge it's batteries whilst on the move.