Ford Mustang to be released in EU

pioneer2000 said:
Still not totally understanding the universal love for these, they're too big and too unsophisticated for UK roads, plus for a bit more one can get a much more refined car (albeit not as exciting).

Reviews seem to sit on the fence also, typically listing a long list of negatives such as being too large, too clumsy and imprecise. Don't think I've read one yet that really claims any particular greatness.

Imo as a stock car the V8 is the only one even worth considering and even that only if one is looking to put a lot of additional money into it to fix what is lacking.
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To big? Its no bigger than a BMW 6 series, its smaller infact, shorter than a 5 series though wider and slightly bigger than an Audi RS5, DB9 or GTR and pretty much identical in size to a Jaguar XKR.

So is it too big, well BMW 6 series seems fine, never had an issue driving 5 series around at great pace even on narrow roads and had great fun in an XKR-S couple of years ago, all cars of a similar size.

What makes it unsophisticated? It suspension, electronic systems are more advanced and superior to many other cars on the market, Ford Mondeo for example, Vectra Insignia, yet these cars seem to have no issue. Its a grand touring car which offers great comfort with a sporty drive should one wish to press on a little with a setup that rewards the driver, what it is not is a true sports car, it is no 911 or BMW M car. Chris Harris himself said, though the car is not at the cutting edge it can cover ground fast but most of all it is a giant middle finger to the EU, big fat V8, RWD that is an absolute joy to drive and every time he gets in it well it feels so special.



Seems to go damn well surprising considering those are narrower b-roads in damp/greasy conditions and on the stock Pirelli Pzero tyres which are not so special in such conditions and I can vouch for this having had them on the 911, they are no Michelin or Goodyear for grip in poor/wet conditions. But this is clearly the review you missed? Chris Harris the presenter regarded as the god for car reviews, who just says how it is irrelevent of what the manufacturer thinks. Well he loves the Mustang, I think him saying how good the stock car good testament and he truly understands it due to how special it is. Yes it has flaws like the stock dampers don't have enough rebound which cause to much deflection/bounciness on more technical roads and the steering could be quicker and more precise.

To fix what is lacking does not cost a lot of additional money!

You can sort all the suspension issues for about £1000, which will stop the deflection/bounciness on more technical roads and improve the steering precision/response.

I've spent just shy of £4000, got complete FRPP Kit, plus complete Steeda and BMR suspension kit to complete transform it. I've also got a full catback exhaust system along with exterior and interior style changes and some other bits. I've also gone with only best stuff, I could have got an exhaust half the price, but I'd rather just do it right first but I've got all this for sub 4k and the suspension/handling can be sorted for 1k easily. When it comes to tyre changing time, stick Michelins on instead of Pirelli, will give a nice handling/grip improvement, transformed my 911 to put it bluntly just changing tyres.

Hopefully in years to come Ford UK will have FRPP division and this is looking likely from speaking to people high up at Ford, that could mean for future customers they can then specify FRPP racing parts at time of ordering or get fitted by Ford at a later date as an upgrade whilst maintaining warranty.


As Chris Harris says, its not an M3 beater, but an M3 is twice the price and is nowhere near twice the car. :)

There is no other V8 GT/Sports coupe on the market brand new which competes with this car, your either having to downsize the engine and still spend more or simply have to spend lots more or buy something second hand.


pioneer2000 said:
A better comparison would be an M235i, or at a stretch a M3/4, or C63. Not a GT-R.
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An M235i just has no excitment for me, yeah its a damn capable car, on the road especially with auto transmission I'd expect it to be quicker than the Mustang and only on a track the Mustang be quicker or a smoother road. But if we were all buying cars based on performance figures, we'd all buy GTR's there is no car that is quicker on the road.

An M235i is just meh, a Mustang is WOW, it has heritage, a true following and people get excited at the thought of them, no one really gives a toss over an M235i its just a good all round car.

M3/M4 are double the price, they are better but not twice as good, the competing car would be the Shelby GT350/R which is better than an M3/M4 and vastly better than a C63, but its pointless comparing them, the BMW cost twice as much and the Shelby won't be coming to Europe at all or not for some time.

Also the BMW E9x M3 in my view is better than the current M3/M4, simply because it has a true M engine, high revving NA V8 that sounds glorious, this car if was still being built would be far more similar to the Mustang, but it is no longer a new car.
 
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kitkat9933 said:
BMW M3/M4 is £57k rrp, excluding any potential discount. Hardly double the price. 40% more at best. Agree with everything else though.
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I paid 35k for the Mustang, same options on an M4/M3 is 59-60k and still no V8.

To be 40% more the M3/M4 needs to be sub 50k, which it is not.
 
I've driven one (GT version with custom pack) a few times and love it.... The doubters need to go drive one before saying its "too big" or "suspension isn't great" etc.

Its a £35K Grand Tourer with 420BHP and a 5.0 V8.... What other NEW car will you get to compete with that for the same price point?....Some people will never be happy though...
 
alx said:
But why, you haven't explained your reasoning yet?
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Higher quality interior, more precise handling, badge prestige and to an extent lack of comparable torque and high fuel consumption.

Of course the Mustang force field here will declare that the interior is fine, the handling can be fixed at extra expense and the badge doesn't matter. But that's the strange thing about Mustangs here.
 
Gibbo said:
To big? Its no bigger than a BMW 6 series, its smaller infact, shorter than a 5 series though wider and slightly bigger than an Audi RS5, DB9 or GTR and pretty much identical in size to a Jaguar XKR.

So is it too big, well BMW 6 series seems fine, never had an issue driving 5 series around at great pace even on narrow roads and had great fun in an XKR-S couple of years ago, all cars of a similar size.

What makes it unsophisticated? It suspension, electronic systems are more advanced and superior to many other cars on the market, Ford Mondeo for example, Vectra Insignia, yet these cars seem to have no issue. Its a grand touring car which offers great comfort with a sporty drive should one wish to press on a little with a setup that rewards the driver, what it is not is a true sports car, it is no 911 or BMW M car. Chris Harris himself said, though the car is not at the cutting edge it can cover ground fast but most of all it is a giant middle finger to the EU, big fat V8, RWD that is an absolute joy to drive and every time he gets in it well it feels so special.



Seems to go damn well surprising considering those are narrower b-roads in damp/greasy conditions and on the stock Pirelli Pzero tyres which are not so special in such conditions and I can vouch for this having had them on the 911, they are no Michelin or Goodyear for grip in poor/wet conditions. But this is clearly the review you missed? Chris Harris the presenter regarded as the god for car reviews, who just says how it is irrelevent of what the manufacturer thinks. Well he loves the Mustang, I think him saying how good the stock car good testament and he truly understands it due to how special it is. Yes it has flaws like the stock dampers don't have enough rebound which cause to much deflection/bounciness on more technical roads and the steering could be quicker and more precise.

To fix what is lacking does not cost a lot of additional money!

You can sort all the suspension issues for about £1000, which will stop the deflection/bounciness on more technical roads and improve the steering precision/response.

I've spent just shy of £4000, got complete FRPP Kit, plus complete Steeda and BMR suspension kit to complete transform it. I've also got a full catback exhaust system along with exterior and interior style changes and some other bits. I've also gone with only best stuff, I could have got an exhaust half the price, but I'd rather just do it right first but I've got all this for sub 4k and the suspension/handling can be sorted for 1k easily. When it comes to tyre changing time, stick Michelins on instead of Pirelli, will give a nice handling/grip improvement, transformed my 911 to put it bluntly just changing tyres.

Hopefully in years to come Ford UK will have FRPP division and this is looking likely from speaking to people high up at Ford, that could mean for future customers they can then specify FRPP racing parts at time of ordering or get fitted by Ford at a later date as an upgrade whilst maintaining warranty.

As Chris Harris says, its not an M3 beater, but an M3 is twice the price and is nowhere near twice the car. :)

There is no other V8 GT/Sports coupe on the market brand new which competes with this car, your either having to downsize the engine and still spend more or simply have to spend lots more or buy something second hand.

An M235i just has no excitment for me, yeah its a damn capable car, on the road especially with auto transmission I'd expect it to be quicker than the Mustang and only on a track the Mustang be quicker or a smoother road. But if we were all buying cars based on performance figures, we'd all buy GTR's there is no car that is quicker on the road.

An M235i is just meh, a Mustang is WOW, it has heritage, a true following and people get excited at the thought of them, no one really gives a toss over an M235i its just a good all round car.

M3/M4 are double the price, they are better but not twice as good, the competing car would be the Shelby GT350/R which is better than an M3/M4 and vastly better than a C63, but its pointless comparing them, the BMW cost twice as much and the Shelby won't be coming to Europe at all or not for some time.

Also the BMW E9x M3 in my view is better than the current M3/M4, simply because it has a true M engine, high revving NA V8 that sounds glorious, this car if was still being built would be far more similar to the Mustang, but it is no longer a new car.
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Wow, long defensive reply there!

You answered the main points yourself... all those cars you listed are BIG cars! A flipping M5 doesn't fit in a lot of city parking spaces (I.e. It's length means it pokes out of the bay and one struggles to open the doors in the space available!)

"Unsophisticated" = not at the cutting edge, per Mr Harris.

As stated the Merc / BMW's aren't double the price at all. The C63 still has a V8 but with more power and torque and better sounding stock. Handling wise the new C63 coupe appears more capable from reviews.

I've seen Chris Harris' review, that's fine but you seem to be ignoring what the majority of other reviews have said.

Also, you've never been shy about buying 2nd hand before, so in that respect a 2nd hand C63 would have been a cheaper purchase with a better engine and similar room for tuning. From the sounds of it you just want to slide about wheels squealing pushing as much power through the tears as possible, so the Merc would do that great.
 
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Partly this is a product of its size, its tendency to pitch and dive heightening an appreciation of that. Partly it is indicative of the low-speed ride, which, on roads repeatedly subjected to weather much worse than visible moisture, has the jiggly consistency of a cheap mattress.
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Certainly, it cannot ape the dexterity of the M235i
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the car makes manifestly less sense; the running costs would make an oil-field heiress wince and it straddles most British driveways like a killer whale stranded on a toilet cistern.
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It's definitely a big, heavy and clumsy car, that can be compared to the M235i.

Seriously, it's been described as a killer whale on a toilet cistern and we've got claims that its not a big car....!!
 
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JRS said:
It is.



It can be, if you're an enthusiast and want to get it up to 10/10ths.



Aaaaaaaand there it is. The badge. It's 'just' a Ford. God do I ever love badge snobbery....:D
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Well then I guess we have different standards as some of the plastics are more akin to one of their transit vans than a premium product. They couldn't even be bothered to put the handbrake on the correct side!

There must be an element of the reality distortion field in your post, as many other cars get slated for poor quality interiors yet because it's a Stang it gets an "it's fine" even though the interior is widely declared as lacking on all reviews and there are nasty plastics on many sections alongside plastic-y looking toggle switches.

Well Ford themselves must agree considering they take all their own badges off the Mustangs and leave the horse in place.

Right, anyway... to summarise: It's a great looking car that will be great to drive once it's been rebuilt with the parts detailed by Gibbo, however one can't just ignore the weaknesses of the car that Ford have put out the door to hit the price point. To pretend like it's perfect and their are no competitors to consider is madness.
 
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pioneer2000 said:
Well then I guess we have different standards as some of the plastics are more akin to one of their transit vans than a premium product. They couldn't even be bothered to put the handbrake on the correct side!
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To be perfectly honest, I'm just glad that it's still a lever and not one of those stupid push-button electronic ones. It's not that much of a reach over is it?

pioneer2000 said:
There must be an element of the reality distortion field in your post, as many other cars get slated for poor quality interiors yet because it's a Stang it gets an "it's fine" even though the interior is widely declared as lacking on all reviews and there are nasty plastics on many sections alongside plastic-y looking toggle switches.
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If it's a choice between one of the better V8 mills on the market right now or super luxurious soft furnishings inside, I'll take the engine! Most of the reviews I've read do say that the quality of the cabin is a huge leap forward over the previous generation, so they're definitely getting there. And it's not just a little less expensive than those rivals with better interiors, it's a lot less expensive.

pioneer2000 said:
Right, anyway... to summarise: It's a great looking car that will be great to drive once it's been rebuilt with the parts detailed by Gibbo, however one can't just ignore the weaknesses of the car that Ford have put out the door to hit the price point. To pretend like it's perfect and their are no competitors to consider is madness.
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Don't misunderstand me, the car isn't perfect by any stretch. Low speed ride quality is jittery on the average British (or indeed Californian) road with the stock suspension, the oil pump in that V8 is a weak spot when you go hunting for more power, there are some quality issues in the cabin that even I would find to be a bit irritating and it just isn't as good looking as the Challenger (:D).
 
pioneer2000 said:
Wow, long defensive reply there!

You answered the main points yourself... all those cars you listed are BIG cars! A flipping M5 doesn't fit in a lot of city parking spaces (I.e. It's length means it pokes out of the bay and one struggles to open the doors in the space available!)

"Unsophisticated" = not at the cutting edge, per Mr Harris.

As stated the Merc / BMW's aren't double the price at all. The C63 still has a V8 but with more power and torque and better sounding stock. Handling wise the new C63 coupe appears more capable from reviews.

I've seen Chris Harris' review, that's fine but you seem to be ignoring what the majority of other reviews have said.

Also, you've never been shy about buying 2nd hand before, so in that respect a 2nd hand C63 would have been a cheaper purchase with a better engine and similar room for tuning. From the sounds of it you just want to slide about wheels squealing pushing as much power through the tears as possible, so the Merc would do that great.
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When I buy a car the thought does it fit in a city parking bay does not even come into my mind, its an American muscle car, its hardly going to be a smart car for size.

Of course its not at the cutting edge its £35k compared to the C63 AMG 60k, it is it not quite half the price but it is £25,000 cheaper, and those suspension issues can be resolved for 1k.

Ford made a few cut back for sure on RHD cars:
Centre column not not change so handbrake on wrong side.
Front DRL disabled and using halogen bulbs instead of LED
Rear sequential disabled instead of resolving and making compliant to EU

Ford took the easy and money saving options, thankfully they are easily resolved, for example LED DRL, indicators cost £30, LED foglights are £100, not end of the world but could be argued that maybe Ford should have included these and the price increased a few hundred quid to compensate.

The jiggly / bouncy suspension is also a big complaint US side, hence why so many owners do change the springs which remedies 80% of the issue but just changing springs and not dampers as well is not always the best idea for long term. The FRPP handling kit remedies that and also sharpens up the whole car especially if you go with linear springs instead of progressive.


I will admit I would normally never buy new, simply because there is huge money to be lost, drop 60k on a C63 and 2 years later your losing probably in the range of £25,000, the extra it cost to buy over Mustang in the first place, the Mustang thankfully won't be losing £25,000, not anywhere near. :)

I wanted a manual, I do not like AUTO's unless they are proper racy ones like Porsche PDK Sports Plus or BMW's M DCT, the rest are fine when cruising but slow and boring when you want to have fun. The C63 ONLY COMES IN AUTO. The Mustang has option of AUTO and MANUAL. :)

The Mercedes does not have the better engine, I don't care what Ford and Mercedes claim for mpg figures, having driven the C63 AMG several times and having a couple of friends who own them they fuel return is very poor indeed, the Mustang is averaging typically 3-5mpg better from UK owners who have them and the Mustang's engine is more revvy and pulls harder at the top-end.

An exhaust for the Mustang is £500-£1000, C63 AMG is £2500-£4000

The C63 AMG can be tuned to around 675BHP at a cost of £10,000

You can do the same to the Mustang for half price, or if you spend £10,000 your looking at 900BHP region.

The engine in the Mustang is not only more economical, more free revving it is also a lot more tune-able and cost less money to do so.


You seem to be missing one very clear point though, I don't want a C63 AMG with a auto. I don't want a BMW M4 with a twin turbo straight 6 and I most definetely don't want some dull Audi.

I want a Mustang with a 5.0l V8, connected to a manual gear box which is connected to the rear wheels and is using a back to basics idea of the driver drives the car and it feels incredibly special whilst doing so. Yes there is some niggles but they are easy to live with or easily remedied for not a whole lot of money.

I am not the only one Ford are selling them like crazy, sales are way above expectations in Europe/UK, the Germans have taken 5000 of them. :)
 
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My killer whale has docked! :D

V2.jpg
 
In fairness the reason I didn't pre-order one of these is my hesitation on the lost value from new.

I have a feeling that once the novelty wears off, these are going to drop very quickly before stabling, it wouldn't surprise me if come this time next year a V8 could be had for low to mid twenties.
 
pioneer2000 said:
Higher quality interior, more precise handling, badge prestige and to an extent lack of comparable torque and high fuel consumption.

Of course the Mustang force field here will declare that the interior is fine, the handling can be fixed at extra expense and the badge doesn't matter. But that's the strange thing about Mustangs here.
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You say you can't compare them because the Nissan has a higher quality interior then offer up German brands for comparison......ok then.

This whole comparison originated from the Mustang being a large car with fairly useless rear seats - so pretty similar to the GTR in both respects. I don't see why they can't be compared in relation to their size and being driven, parked etc on UK roads.
 
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