Formula 1: Refuelling to return in 2017

deuse said:
I think people are forgetting about the driver. Aero is the worst thing to happen to F1 in it's life time.

Up to 2008 F1 was great with close racing, then the aero came in and it started dying from 2009.
Ditch all the false racing aids or F1 will die faster then it is now.
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It was rubbish after 97 when they narrowed the cars and slapped on grooved tyres. It was still rubbish up to 2008. Aero superiority really came into it's own post 97 when they blasted mechanical grip.

Skeeter said:
Are all you guys 5 years old?.
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Totally agree. Anyway having a fuel limit won't change much. It will just make them lighter, decrease the lap time and decrease tyre wear. If they go back to the sprint races prior to the refuelling ban (without a fuel limit)then it will just go back to a driver sitting and holding, waiting for pitstops and banging in 5 fast laps to leapfrog 5 cars in the pits.

I really don't want to see a return to that ****. Going back to refuelling makes no sense if you still have a fuel limit?

More knee jerk straw clutching while they still let front wings be designed with about 150,000 elements.
 
Refuelling! Terrible idea.

No more Revs without increased fuel flow, they're a few thousand rpm below the existing 16k limit as it stands for efficiency reasons.

Tyres - fine.

If they want to make it more interesting here's a controversial idea - PROPER TRACKS!

All the Tilke tracks are in the bottom half of this list that I broadly agree with : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mo...Daniel-Johnson-in-pictures.html?frame=3226147

I've still not watched the Spanish GP yet. The BTCC was on, so I watched that instead. Did I miss much? First race I missed in about 8 years.
 
Skeeter said:
So I got bored waiting for my curry to arrive and did some Man Maths.

Using the below assumptions I've worked out which strategy is best with a refuling formula and a 100KG fuel limit.

  • 100 second lap
  • 60 lap race
  • 0.03 seconds loss per lap per KG of fuel carried
  • 1.666 KG used per lap
  • 0.05 seconds loss per lap per lap of fuel carried (1.666KG)
  • 30 second pit stop for fuel

Code: 
Stops			Strategy	Total Time	Diff from 0 Stops	Rank
0 Stops			60		6091.5		0			3
1 Even Stop		30, 30		6076.5		-15			1
2 Even Stops		20, 20, 20	6091.5		0			3
3 Even Stops		15, 15, 15, 15	6114		22.5			6
1 Staggered Stop	40, 60		6081.5		-10			2
2 Staggered Stops	30, 15, 15	6095.25		3.75			5

So the fastest strategy is always 1 pit stop. So with the free choice of tyres just pick 2 sets that will cover half a race each and job done.
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And the fact that the different tires have different rates of degradation at different tracks and the longer lasting tires are slower? You say 1 stop is fastest yet most likely you'd have to run tires that are 1-2 seconds slower over the entire race distance to make it, so what gain 15 seconds but lose 100+ via worse tires?

The whole point being that some cars can make a one stop, others can't. Then you have a car getting stuck in traffic and changing strategy on the fly potentially.

In 2008 the tires could last so long they frequently didn't change tires when coming in for fuel. Does that seem plausible with the tires we have currently or anything close to them?

People are just going this is what happened the last time we had refuelling so obviously it will be exactly the same. Did they have bulletproof tires in 2008, yup, do they now, nope, that will have a massive effect on both in race ability to keep up the pace and forcing changing tires at pit stops.

Will it work out well, I have no idea, it could be crap, it could be awesome. But presuming it will be identical to the last time their was refuelling is nothing short of ridiculous.

With tires today there is an absolute definitely faster strategy for every track... yet almost never do we see everyone on the same strategy. Some cars simply can't pull off a one stop at tracks that other teams can, some teams can't turn one tire on performance wise so will be better off throwing in a short stint and getting back on a faster tire.

Presuming that there being one obvious strategy for pitstops means every team will do the same is ridiculous. Back in 2008 that wasn't even true with multiple teams on different strategies and that was when tires were much less of a differentiating performance factor.
 
Skeeter said:
It made a bigger improvement in the number of overtakes than both DRS and Pirelli tyres combined.
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DRS. The artificial advantage afforded to drivers to make the sport more interesting. Designed to allow overtaking opportunities through the means of making cars temporarily unequal. Never mind.

Never understood DRS. It's so unsporting!

Feed free to correct me. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong. :)
 
Domo said:
DRS. The artificial advantage afforded to drivers to make the sport more interesting. Designed to allow overtaking opportunities through the means of making cars temporarily unequal. Never mind.

Never understood DRS. It's so unsporting!

Feed free to correct me. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong. :)
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DRS is intended to equalise the disadvantage of running close behind another car and losing downforce through the corners, which also makes the cars temporarily unequal.

Not that hard to understand.
 
deuse said:
The best ever viewing figures for F1 was 2008. After that it went down hill to what we have now. So something must have been right?

But on the bright side MotoGp is on this week :) wonder how many times they will break the lap record again.....
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Viewing figures in total or just in the UK because Lewis won?

Ah yes MotoGP. Should be interesting especially with Jorge back in the mix too.
 
What happened to slipstreaming on straights? Surely that equalises the imbalance you describe to some extent, if not entirely.
Furthermore, I can still remember chasing cars being right up behind the gearbox of the car in front around corners pre-DRS, then nailing it on the straight.

DRS is a crowd pleaser. Everyone wanted more overtaking, F1 responded with DRS and DRS pretty much guarantees it and the fans get what they wanted.
 
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The loss of front downforce with the modern efficient aerodynamics means the following car can't get close enough to get a proper slipstream outside of Monza. Hence why DRS is only enabled in specific areas for cars within a second of the car ahead. The teams were running similar concept systems before such as the F-ducts. They couldn't be regulated where standardised DRS can be.

If the DRS rules are too advantageous for the following car, then tweak the rules to make it a closer gap or make the DRS zone shorter.

I like the idea, some people don't.
 
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It looks cool on TV. However, in a sport that is inherently dangerous and tries to minimise risk, especially to drivers, the reintroduction of refuelling is utterly inconsistent. Less than a weekend past where we saw two pit incidents risk the pit crew it is suddenly a good idea to introduce a pressurised highly flammable liquid in an environment where more overtaking will be done in the pits as opposed to on track.

Mental.
 
DRS only applies on straights. Aerodynamic turbulence is only an issue around corners where you are trying to create the exact downforce you'd like. In straights, if anything you want all your wings to stall.

On straights the car behind has the advantage with DRS. Slip streaming means the car behind would even without DRS. It was introduced to create more overtaking, specifically where a fast car is stuck behind a slower one. How do you dedend against that?

I do like ERS though as that is an even fight.

There is little you can do to remove the problem of turbulence induced loss of downforce around corners. Slipstreaming doesn't do enough in these positions. You can only make teams less dependent on downforce.
 
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muon said:
Pitstop releases are much better these days.

Whens the last time we had an early release?
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I'm all for bringing back refuelling, I think it'll make the whole thing more exciting again.

But on your point, there have been incidents. Here's one from 5 races ago. Perhaps not so much an early release as a slightly botched one.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118075
 
Didn't one of the RBRs or STRs leave with a wheel lose in Australia this season? Or was it Kimi?

And I can't get my head around how anyone can claim refuelling makes it more exciting? How, exactly? All I remember is processions.
 
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