Certain mental illnesses completely negate regret already. The concept is part of our psyche, deterministic or not. You'd still regret, but know you have no choice but to regret
Free will
- Thread starter neocon
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Certain mental illnesses completely negate regret already. The concept is part of our psyche, deterministic or not. You'd still regret, but know you have no choice but to regret
Exactly. When we know everything about how particles behave and how that relates to the brain and consciousness, we'll know whether free will exists. Until then, it's pure speculation. I personally have a feeling that the universe is designed such that we can never no such things.
You are just part of a massive chaotic domino effect spanning back to the start of the universe, all you can do is observe it happening, you don’t have free will.
Every decision you make is the domino effect playing out up till that moment, you would only ever make the choices you make.
science shows the conscious brain isn’t even in control anyway and decisions are made prior to the conscious part realising. As I say all you can do is observe.
Every decision you make is the domino effect playing out up till that moment, you would only ever make the choices you make.
science shows the conscious brain isn’t even in control anyway and decisions are made prior to the conscious part realising. As I say all you can do is observe.
There's been experiments that show that your subconscious decides things before your conscious mind is aware of that fact. I guess in that sense we probably don't have complete free will because we aren't aware of the decision being made.
There was a vsauce mindfield episode on it recently
There was a vsauce mindfield episode on it recently
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OP hasn't done as I dared. OP must have free will.
No I'm forced to work for a living, or at least try to, that's not free will.
Do you get to boss people around at work?
This, the decisions we make are just the result of an almost infinite number of inputs
You're not forced to, you choose to because the alternatives are less desirable
I didn't choose to be born, so therefore none of this was my will.
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That's a little deep.
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Free will is the biggest hustle of all time.
Yup, you can choose what to do you have free will.
We also respond to incentives, rewards etc.. both positive and negative - how you respond is up to you to a large extent.
Questions of determinism etc.. seem a bit misplaced here - my prior at the moment is that the universe isn't deterministic but supposing it were I don't think that matters to you as an individual human*. Even if everything could be known in advance by some observer outside our universe it doesn't change that from your perspective, you as a conscious, sentient being are making various choices freely... we still have some degree of self-perception, we have sentience even if we are a big group of atoms that can be predicted by an outsider.
I also don't see why adding some randomness necessarily changes anything there, randomness doesn't necessarily equate to free will, just because you're no longer predictable to some outsider and some things in the universe are unknown...
*like supposing everyone believes indeterminism and decides we're theoretically predictable to some outside observer and everything that will happen could, in theory, be known in advance... it's not going to change that as individuals we'll hold each other accountable for actions etc... a mass murderer who gets caught is still going to be locked up etc...
We also respond to incentives, rewards etc.. both positive and negative - how you respond is up to you to a large extent.
Questions of determinism etc.. seem a bit misplaced here - my prior at the moment is that the universe isn't deterministic but supposing it were I don't think that matters to you as an individual human*. Even if everything could be known in advance by some observer outside our universe it doesn't change that from your perspective, you as a conscious, sentient being are making various choices freely... we still have some degree of self-perception, we have sentience even if we are a big group of atoms that can be predicted by an outsider.
I also don't see why adding some randomness necessarily changes anything there, randomness doesn't necessarily equate to free will, just because you're no longer predictable to some outsider and some things in the universe are unknown...
*like supposing everyone believes indeterminism and decides we're theoretically predictable to some outside observer and everything that will happen could, in theory, be known in advance... it's not going to change that as individuals we'll hold each other accountable for actions etc... a mass murderer who gets caught is still going to be locked up etc...
Building on work of Libet et al. in the 1980s, researchers have pretty consistently demonstrated that 'conscious' decisions are detectable in the brain at an unconscious/subconscious level up to 10 seconds before entering the participant's awareness. While there's a lot more work to be done, it's pretty damning for the concept of free will; at least as we understand the term today. Plenty of data for determinists and materialists to squabble over...
Example source.
Example source.
It's not really relevant tbh... the question of free will has existed in philosophy for ages now, metaphysics etc.. is not something courts are particularly bothered about in practice.
To answer OP, yes.
Those who struggle with the question in the theory field have failed to integrate the 4 main physics:
Newtonian
Einsteinian
Maxwellian
Quantum
...with the core of intelligent purpose, innate intelligence (ie. brain-intelligence vs concept-operations intelligence), locus of control and cognitive complexity.
There is no mutually-exclusive position of you either have free-will or you dont, that's a theoretical artifact.
Plus, few determinists have yet to comprehend the implications of conscious or preconscious intelligent control interactions with quantum causality.
Unconscious motivation is another subfield, headed up by Bargh.
Those who struggle with the question in the theory field have failed to integrate the 4 main physics:
Newtonian
Einsteinian
Maxwellian
Quantum
...with the core of intelligent purpose, innate intelligence (ie. brain-intelligence vs concept-operations intelligence), locus of control and cognitive complexity.
There is no mutually-exclusive position of you either have free-will or you dont, that's a theoretical artifact.
Plus, few determinists have yet to comprehend the implications of conscious or preconscious intelligent control interactions with quantum causality.
Unconscious motivation is another subfield, headed up by Bargh.
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Plus evolutionary adaptations - including free will are an open system. Birds and humans can develop new sense combinations - "cross-modal coupling"- at physical (brain biology changes) level within a single living individuals lifetime in mechanical response to adaptive pressures, or by experimental (humans) choice.
Determinist industry is a force in the field of theorising about free will: behaviour prediction services, and personality assessment of "traits" (the determinist psychology school) are large and profitable enterprises. Their continued profitability rests on the fact that some habits are learnt early, are rewarding enough to be maintained for long periods of time, and are adaptive strategies in the environmental niche.
Determinist industry is a force in the field of theorising about free will: behaviour prediction services, and personality assessment of "traits" (the determinist psychology school) are large and profitable enterprises. Their continued profitability rests on the fact that some habits are learnt early, are rewarding enough to be maintained for long periods of time, and are adaptive strategies in the environmental niche.
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Deleted User 298457
Deleted User 298457
@RxR who are you and what are all these complex sentences you are using?