FTTP on Demand - whos got it?

wildest_jjk · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:31

bulldog147 said:
BT are to blame for real fibre in uk are far behind from the rest of Europe. But it's good for openreach to split from BT meaning that OR can do what they want. I think after 2020 we will seeing fast roll out of both FTTC G. FAST, FTTP and maybe much cheaper FTTPoD for residential customers.

Openreach haven't split from BT. They will still be a BT owned company. The reason we are so far behind is due to the lack of funding from government and other providers. Everyone wants BT to stump up the investment and then simply piggy back off of the service. It's ridiculous to compare it to countries such as Romania (from the other post) when they probably have a quarter of the households that the UK has.

wildest_jjk · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:33

bulldog147 said:
I thought BT are only interest in businesses not the residential side for FTTP? There are about 10% FTTP for businesses but 0% for residential

There is a consultation now where Openreach are discussing FTTP with other providers.

bulldog147 · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:42

So far I got three ISPs offered FTTPoD for my home and small business at home.

Isp 1 quote : installation and distance charges exc vat £4578 monthly service charges £324 exc vat (36 months)

Isp 2 quote : installation and distance charges exc vat £5318 monthly service charges £302 exc vat (36 months)

Isp 3 quote : installation and distance charges exc vat £3969 monthly service charges £295 exc vat (36 months)

crinkleshoes · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:45

r7slayer said:
This is so true. Even switching from your ISP DNS to a different DNS can speed up internet browsing because of the time it takes to resolve hosts. Google DNS has noticeably speed up my browsing.

Yes that helps too... i actually find opendns are a few ms faster than google now... I think because so many people use google.

For years I've been running local dns.

crinkleshoes · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:49

bulldog147 said:
No, all FTTPoD are monthly charge of £300+ vat. There is no way you getting it for around £70 a month as Openreach won't allow this. The isp are mistaken pricing in error.

The openreach wholesale price is supposed to be £38+VAT/month (or is that just native? odd to be such a vast price difference if you're paying for install)... so ISPs could, in theory, offer it at that price... when I got a quote for it at over £300/month I laughed and they started telling me about how heavy it is on the ISP back end etc etc

wildest_jjk · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:51

crinkleshoes said:
The openreach wholesale price is supposed to be £38+VAT/month (or is that just native? odd to be such a vast price difference if you're paying for install)... so ISPs could, in theory, offer it at that price... when I got a quote for it at over £300/month I laughed and they started telling me about how heavy it is on the ISP back end etc etc

Lol which ISP told you that?

wildest_jjk · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:53

crinkleshoes said:
Yes that helps too... i actually find opendns are a few ms faster than google now... I think because so many people use google.

For years I've been running local dns.

Will have to try OpenDNS again. I'm sure Google isn't as fast as it used to be...

Thanks

crinkleshoes · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:54

If I can remember their name, I'll let you know... it's not one of the ones mentioned above, there is another ISP offering it.

wildest_jjk · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:55

crinkleshoes said:
If I can remember their name, I'll let you know... it's not one of the ones mentioned above, there is another ISP offering it.

Ok cheers. Would be good to know

bulldog147 · 5 Aug 2017 at 13:58

I just don't understand why FTTP is lots cheaper on monthly service charges than FTTPoD even thought they both are the same speed as 330/30. Pretty rip off by bt to be honest.

MissChief · 5 Aug 2017 at 14:00

FTTPoD pricing is available here: https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=LNo28YEt6b0mlOac+C6kSQFXgQ2BCzCEU1ae6o4sFOyrmMllOOG7b/12AmPFLBERe6YShZ82RgLOGLsH2e9+mw== although ISP's may have negotiated discounts. As you can see, unless you're very close to your local Fibre node it gets very expensive very quickly.

TJM · 5 Aug 2017 at 14:10

bulldog147 said:
I just don't understand why FTTP is lots cheaper on monthly service charges than FTTPoD even thought they both are the same speed as 330/30. Pretty rip off by bt to be honest.

I'm guessing that the single on demand subscriber is expected to cover all of the running costs for the equipment from their property to the nearest existing node, while the same infrastructure for native FTTP would be shared between many properties and the costs would be shared.

MissChief · 5 Aug 2017 at 14:15

TJM said:
I'm guessing that the single on demand subscriber is expected to cover all of the running costs for the equipment from their property to the nearest existing node, while the same infrastructure for native FTTP would be shared between many properties and the costs would be shared.

Exactly. FTTPoD the single user is expected to cover all costs whereas FTTP the costs are shared.

Caged · 5 Aug 2017 at 14:40

The root cause of the slow development of FTTP is because Ofcom are obsessed with the idea of competition, which they see as lots of ISPs being able to offer services over Openreach infrastructure offered at regulated prices, rather than creating an environment where investment in putting fibre into the ground has a clearer path to generating a return.

MissChief · 5 Aug 2017 at 14:52

Caged said:
The root cause of the slow development of FTTP is because Ofcom are obsessed with the idea of competition, which they see as lots of ISPs being able to offer services over Openreach infrastructure offered at regulated prices, rather than creating an environment where investment in putting fibre into the ground has a clearer path to generating a return.

Creating a fibre network will cost billions upon billions of pounds. And if one company did it then loads of other companies would go bleating to OFCOM about how their network is an effective monopoly and anti-competitive and we should be granted access to their network to ensure fair competition. That's why no one will do it. There's a reason Virgin Media have only really started making a profit since they stopped expanding their network. That's ****'s expensive!

IMO the Openreach network should have stayed under public ownership and be run on a non profit basis, with some allowance for research and expansion.

It should also be noted that back in the 80's BT had plans to create a full fibre network all around the UK when they were publicly owned. They were becoming world experts in fibre and were at the forefront of R&D and went the the then Tory government who shut the idea down. The fibre expertise and research areas were sold off to Far Eastern tech companies and closed down a few years later once they'd drained all the expertise and knowledge they could and BT was nationalised.

http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784 Is well worth a read.

Caged · 5 Aug 2017 at 14:58

Exactly, the government at the time preferred 'competition' from US telecom providers rather than technological advancement.

A bunch of providers selling more or less the same price-regulated underlying product within a few pounds of each other isn't competition.

wildest_jjk · 5 Aug 2017 at 16:08

Finally some people talking sense

The problem is really with Ofcom, everytime new leadership comes in etc. they have to make an impression. The emphasis is always about attempting to create competition but half the time it just backfires. You only have to look at the recent developments with the dark fibre proposals. An absolute shambles and I'm glad BT won the judicial appeal!

Don't take everything Sky reports as the gospel

MissChief · 5 Aug 2017 at 21:13

So what would work for people then? How should the government and OFCOM encourage the FTTP rollout?

Caged · 6 Aug 2017 at 18:07

I don't think duct sharing is going to change much, since people still need to put fibre into the ground and overbuilding is a waste of money. I would like to see a national access network where the ISP has full control of layer 2 back to the exchange, and rather than Gpon it's a symmetric Ethernet service so that providers can do cool things with QinQ for providing segregated voice, video etc. rather than the reselling a wholesale product we have now, where nobody can differentiate - e.g. nobody can offer a 40/40 fibre service, they have to do 80/20. I've basically described EAD, except bringing the price down somehow. Perhaps a rebate scheme where people paying for installation work that is subsequently used to serve other customers receives money back for up to a predetermined number of years following their installation.

It's probably fairly close to the original vision of NBN before the economic realities / mismanagement in an attempt to save money set in.

ChrisD. · 7 Aug 2017 at 09:36

So what's it mean if this shows on my cabinet?

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