Fuel price discussion thread (was ‘chaos’)

[b0rn2sk8]

Yup, EV depreciation is lately driven by a lack of supply and huge demand which existed pre-COVID.

Depreciation was already very low compared to ICE before the car stock issues started to bite in late 2020. It’s so low on some models that there isn’t really much scope for it to get any lower because it’s bumping into new cars being delivered.

Where as ICE cars started from a much higher base, hence they have probably actually gained more due to the shortages but they still don’t hold up as well as BEVs which are a bit of a special case at the moment due to the general discourse that all started with diesel gate.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Do they? Tesla 3 standard at 2/3 years old are selling for £40k with 10,000+ miles and a new one is £43k. Not sure that is following ICE car depreciation but the market is so messed up atm, it might be.

I think this is just the car market - there are various examples of ICE cars doing the same thing.

Once new cars are easily available again it will stop, why would you pay 40k for a 3 year old car when a brand new version is just 3k more unless there were issues getting the new one?

 

[AORUS]

Looking back in 1983 it was just 36.7ppl. November 1991, petrol prices were 46.55pl, and diesel prices was 46.07pl. But then in November 2011, prices rises to 133.7ppl and 140.95ppl, that was a 187 per cent increase for petrol and a huge 206 per cent rise for diesel. And in 2021 the prices for unleaded was 123.9ppl diesel 136.5 in 2022 unleaded 159.57ppl super unleaded 170.73ppl diesel 167.37ppl crazy times ahead with ICE cars. I'm glad I switch to EV

 

[Duke]

This don't apply to me now having EV

It will indirectly though of course.

 

[Vita]

February 2023 delivery date for TM3 LR from what I’ve seen online. That’s in white with the non optional alloys.

That’s why they can charge a premium for used as people are somewhat impatient.

 

[DarrenM343]

My real world experience says I pay approximately 1.5p per mile in the Leaf.

How do get that low figure however? I run an EV but I don't believe it's as cheap as some say. Even if able to charge cheaply overnight, assuming someone is on a cheap fixed tariff still, it usually comes with higher daytime usage rates so that should be factored in too IMO.

Using an i3 (averaging 4.4miles/kwh long term) I had to take an elderly relative to hospital the other day. Sat in the car keeping warm for a bit too while we waited. At 22p/kwh i reckon I still used £2+ worth covering just over 22 miles so that's at least 9pence per mile. It wasn't my most efficient journey (due to using heating while stationary). Not bothered switching to a cheap overnight tariff as I just don't my car often enough and working for clients from home so tend to use quite a bit daytime too.

Charging cheaply overnight is great but can include a little false economy if people are spending more daytime than they used to, when they were on a non-EV tariff.

 

[AORUS]

It will indirectly though of course.

Who to say what the prices would be in 2023!

 

[b0rn2sk8]

How do get that low figure however? I run an EV but I don't believe it's as cheap as some say. Even if able to charge cheaply overnight, assuming someone is on a cheap fixed tariff still, it usually comes with higher daytime usage rates so that should be factored in too IMO.

Using an i3 (averaging 4.4miles/kwh long term) I had to take an elderly relative to hospital the other day. Sat in the car keeping warm for a bit too while we waited. At 22p/kwh i reckon I still used £2+ worth covering just over 22 miles so that's at least 9pence per mile. Not bothered switching to a cheap overnight tariff as I just don't my car often enough and working for clients from home so tend to use quite a bit daytime too.

Charging cheaply overnight is great but can include a little false economy if people are spending more daytime than they used to, when they were on a non-EV tariff.

The day rate for octopus go is only 2p/kWh over the current price cap (approx 28p vs 30p) but you can charge at 7.5p for 4 hours (about 2p/mile for your car).

You really don’t need to do many miles for the sums to add up vs using about 10kwh a day in the house (U.K. average) if the alternative is paying the capped rate for all your usage.

If you are locked in on an old cheaper rate the. The tipping point is obviously much larger. I’m locked in at 20p/kWh for another 18 months, the tipping point for me is higher than current my annual mileage so my EV costs me about 5p per mile. If I wasn’t locked in on that cheap rate, I’d be on Go for sure.

That 1.5P figure will be from the old, now expired go rate from the end of last year which was 5p/kWh.

You are correct that you do need to look at all your use in the round though.

 

[AORUS]

How do get that low figure however? I run an EV but I don't believe it's as cheap as some say. Even if able to charge cheaply overnight, assuming someone is on a cheap fixed tariff still, it usually comes with higher daytime usage rates so that should be factored in too IMO. Using an i3 (averaging 4.4miles/kwh long term) I had to take an elderly relative to hospital the other day. Sat in the car keeping warm for a bit too while we waited. At 22p/kwh i reckon I still used £2+ worth covering just over 22 miles so that's at least 9pence per mile. Not bothered switching to a cheap overnight tariff as I just don't my car often enough and working for clients from home so tend to use quite a bit daytime too.

Charging cheaply overnight is great but can include a little false economy if people are spending more daytime than they used to, when they were on a non-EV tariff.

7kW home charger is tariff at 4.5p/Kwh off-peak and Charging at 50kW, receiving 3.5 miles per kWh. Assumes tariff of 26p/kWh applicable to most Pod Point rapid chargers cost £5.20 for 20mins

 

[booyaka]

Free charging still in my local authority - ridiculous really but I'll take advantage whilst I can. Last 1000 miles i've driven have cost me £0. Not charged at home in weeks...

Also trading in Model 3 for a Model Y. Trade in price is £1k less than I paid for it 2.5 years ago (14k miles) - Bonkers world we live in currently......

 

[AORUS]

for me there's only 3x free charging points in my city so have to play sometimes But still cheaper than fuel prices

 

[Semple]

Who to say what the prices would be in 2023!

I think he means you'll indirectly suffer because the cost of electric is going up, so an EV car will still be more expensive to run than say 2 years ago.

 

[Greebo]

I think this is just the car market - there are various examples of ICE cars doing the same thing.

Once new cars are easily available again it will stop, why would you pay 40k for a 3 year old car when a brand new version is just 3k more unless there were issues getting the new one?

Thats what i dont get. If you go on tesla's site you can order a new standard one for delivery in May 2022 so who on earth are buying these 3 year old ones to "save" £3k?

Makes sense on the LR/performance models if you cant get a new one until 2023 but the used prices pf performance models arent as strong. Plenty around at 2 years at £51k vs £59k new.

Thats an £8k saving and you can have the car now and start saving money on fuel. That makes sense. But a standard 3 with no delays in ordering new makes no sense.

 

[lovelyhead]

How do get that low figure however? I run an EV but I don't believe it's as cheap as some say. Even if able to charge cheaply overnight, assuming someone is on a cheap fixed tariff still, it usually comes with higher daytime usage rates so that should be factored in too IMO.

Using an i3 (averaging 4.4miles/kwh long term) I had to take an elderly relative to hospital the other day. Sat in the car keeping warm for a bit too while we waited. At 22p/kwh i reckon I still used £2+ worth covering just over 22 miles so that's at least 9pence per mile. It wasn't my most efficient journey (due to using heating while stationary). Not bothered switching to a cheap overnight tariff as I just don't my car often enough and working for clients from home so tend to use quite a bit daytime too.

Charging cheaply overnight is great but can include a little false economy if people are spending more daytime than they used to, when they were on a non-EV tariff.

Octopus Go. 5p per kWh. I get about 4 miles per KWH.

 

[DRZ]

Looking back in 1983 it was just 36.7ppl. November 1991, petrol prices were 46.55pl, and diesel prices was 46.07pl. But then in November 2011, prices rises to 133.7ppl and 140.95ppl, that was a 187 per cent increase for petrol and a huge 206 per cent rise for diesel. And in 2021 the prices for unleaded was 123.9ppl diesel 136.5 in 2022 unleaded 159.57ppl super unleaded 170.73ppl diesel 167.37ppl crazy times ahead with ICE cars. I'm glad I switch to EV

Have you adjusted for inflation? http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/petrolprices.html - no idea on accuracy but it seems to fit with my recollection.

 

[Haggisman]

Ecotricity is one of, if not the most expensive public chargers. There are plenty of cheaper, even free options available. If you are bothered about saving money and using ecotricity then you are doing it wrong.
.

Yes, but unlike in an ICE where you can easily fill the tank with enough fuel for your trip before hand, the limited range on an ev means on any extended trip you dont have much choice, unless you want to take a 5-10 mile detour off the motorway to find a cheaper charger (which results in a reduction of your effective range by 10-20 miles, never mind needing to keep enough reserve for a plan B if that charger is broken/big queue etc.) plus, like i said even best case scenarion with cheap home charging, the difference is about 10p/mile, meaning you need 50-100k miles to break even over the £5-10k cheaper ICE. That's between 10-20 years if you only do 5k/year

 

[Firestar_3x]

2022 unleaded 159.57ppl super unleaded 170.73ppl diesel 167.37ppl crazy times ahead with ICE cars. I'm glad I switch to EV

Just wait till the start slapping tax on either the electricity used for EVs or distance driven. Its inevitable something like this will have to happen, just a matter of time.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Thats what i dont get. If you go on tesla's site you can order a new standard one for delivery in May 2022 so who on earth are buying these 3 year old ones to "save" £3k?

Makes sense on the LR/performance models if you cant get a new one until 2023 but the used prices pf performance models arent as strong. Plenty around at 2 years at £51k vs £59k new.

Thats an £8k saving and you can have the car now and start saving money on fuel. That makes sense. But a standard 3 with no delays in ordering new makes no sense.

I don’t get it either, I was very much planning on buying used. I took one look at the prices on auto trader and ordered a new one. The website quoted 3 months for delivery, I picked it up 3 weeks later…

Although that led to a bit of a scramble to get a charge point installed!

 

[Journey]

Just wait till the start slapping tax on either the electricity used for EVs

No idea how they are going to tax all the electricity I generate from my solar array, that goes into the car.

 

[[TW]Fox]

No idea how they are going to take all the electricity I generate from my solar array, that goes into the car.

It wouldn't be particularly difficult to tax you for that by using the mileage you cover. Some countries already do tax based on mileage for some fuel types - for example, New Zealand.