Just paid 163.9 at Sainsbury's here. Every station is rammed with people constantly, not quite to September levels though.
Fuel price discussion thread (was ‘chaos’)
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Just paid 163.9 at Sainsbury's here. Every station is rammed with people constantly, not quite to September levels though.
Not the mechanics of the car, but the battery. It's a well known limitation of lithium-ion batteries they only have so many charge cycles before they lose storage capacity. So whilst it might go to 200k miles your range will drop hugely in that time without replacing the battery which in most cases will be cost prohibitive.
So that's what puts me off electric cars for the time being. I'm sure there will come a point where batteries can be fully charged in 5 minutes at a "filling station" setup and the range will be higher than what it is now.
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My local one was quiet. Around my way there is no panic buying, not that you would call it that now, it's just people filling up due to the price changes.
I find it a bit odd when people panic buy fuel, its like a quick fix that leads to longer suffering weeks later for themselves and everyone else.
So when was the last time you bought a car and completed 200k miles in it? Just curious.
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Maybe he buys cars with 150,000 miles on and completes 50k in them?
Not everyone only buys new cars.
I didn't bring up the 200k figure as a measure of reliability. Although most ICEs will do that sort of mileage without much issue if maintained and serviced correctly, it's typically other things that go wrong on the car first that cause people to replace it.
Interesting to note though having had a quick look most car manufacturers only warranty their EV batteries at 7 to 8 years or 100k miles and that's with capacity falling to 70%.
The average range of an EV battery is 181 miles, if it lost 30% that's 126.7 miles which is frankly pitiful but within spec.
Other than the obvious and fair concerns about the battery I think it's likely that an EV will be more reliable and give less issues than a typical ICE car over say 100k miles. Most of the issues that you'll encounter on an ICE car over that period of time don't exist with an EV.
The battery thing is a concern and it is no surprise to see it brushed off as a non-issue by those who order brand new lease cars and give them back after 3 years so have little real interest in capacity after that time.
That said surely there is real world data out there now - we have had at least 10 years of mainstream production EV on the road? What proportion of 2012 Nissan Leaf are still on the road versus 2012 Ford Fiesta? I doubt there is much of a difference.
The battery thing is a concern and it is no surprise to see it brushed off as a non-issue by those who order brand new lease cars and give them back after 3 years so have little real interest in capacity after that time.
That said surely there is real world data out there now - we have had at least 10 years of mainstream production EV on the road? What proportion of 2012 Nissan Leaf are still on the road versus 2012 Ford Fiesta? I doubt there is much of a difference.
So how much will a typical ICE car cost to maintain for 200k miles, which is ~16 years doing ~12k miles per year? Again curious, since you've given figures for the reduction in range, you must have an idea of something like a standard Ford Focus or a Golf would cost over that time?
My calculator says otherwise. 14p a mile for the Hybrid. 15p a mile for an EV.
MPG figures from running a Fabia vRS for 14 years.
I wouldn't hold your breath. We're in for a bumpy ride.
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Ecotricity is one of, if not the most expensive public chargers. There are plenty of cheaper, even free options available. If you are bothered about saving money and using ecotricity then you are doing it wrong.
My Leaf 24kwh with 30,000 miles on the clock was bought in September for £8500. I checked autotrader about a week ago and they were selling similar Leafs for £11000. Today I checked we buy any car and they are offering £8600 for my Leaf.
EV's are way more reliable than ICE's due to less moving parts. The biggest reliability problem for EV drivers is software.
Not really true in modern EV's that cool / heat the battery. They will lose some capacity but not enough to be a problem for most people.
That just goes to show how much confidence the manufacturers have in their batteries. 30% degredation within 7 years is what they expect a very small percentage of batteries to degrade to. The vast majority of new EV's will probably never drop below 85% in 7 years.
My Leaf with zero thermal management of the battery is still above 85% battery health and it is coming up for 7 years old. Battery degradation is just not an issue EV owners need to worry themselves about.
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My real world experience says I pay approximately 1.5p per mile in the Leaf.
Agreed but for them to be able to offer a warranty of that length, there will be a huge margin for error within those numbers.
Most of the reliable data out there is from Tesla, which points to a 10% loss over >100k miles. Sure there will be outliers but that is the case with everything.
Original Leafs did not fare as well but they were not very sophisticated at all in that department and lots of rapid charging tended to cook the batteries.
The newer LFP based cars are expected to have negligible degradation over their lifetime.
Your calculator is clearly wrong as has been shown multiple times in this thread. You can sign up to a tariff today that will enable you to power your EV for 2p a mile with a day rate 2p/kWh above the current cap rate for a year.
2005 Fabia VRS 1.9 TDI is not a ‘hot hatch’ by anybody’s definition, even back then.
Supermarket fuels aren't too bad around here, £1.55-1.60 range. Well I say not bad, it's awful, but compared to Shell etc it's a lot better. Once again though I am surprised at the widening gap in price between diesel and unleaded at some petrol stations. I can't remember what the prices were when I drove past an Esso/Texaco/whatever it was last night, but the price difference between bog standard diesel and unleaded was more than 10p a litre.
Fortunately for me I drive quite a bit for work and make a reasonable amount on top which covers my personal mileage and then some. Case in point being a drive to Dublin and back that I did recently - around 700 miles which for me is a full tank costing, around £82 at the time (£1.52 a litre) and work pay me 35p a mile so I claimed £245 for that, a £163 'profit'. At £1.70 it's £10 more in fuel cost so I'd still have made £153. I get a car allowance too and I own the car outright so I view that as covering the maintenance.
I would hate to be doing any kind of long commute having to cover all the costs myself though. I used to have to drive 600 miles a week to/from the office, that would not be much fun for the wallet.
Fortunately for me I drive quite a bit for work and make a reasonable amount on top which covers my personal mileage and then some. Case in point being a drive to Dublin and back that I did recently - around 700 miles which for me is a full tank costing, around £82 at the time (£1.52 a litre) and work pay me 35p a mile so I claimed £245 for that, a £163 'profit'. At £1.70 it's £10 more in fuel cost so I'd still have made £153. I get a car allowance too and I own the car outright so I view that as covering the maintenance.
I would hate to be doing any kind of long commute having to cover all the costs myself though. I used to have to drive 600 miles a week to/from the office, that would not be much fun for the wallet.
I believe we traditionally get a larger proportion of our diesel from Russia apparently, hence why it will be disproportionately affected.
ergh - everyones used car went up in price since September, and, curious if wbac is close to purchase price from 5 months ago
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Which car going forward is likely to be more in demand and hold it value better an ICE or an EV. I personally think the obvious answer is the EV If we are talking about an average car and not something exotic.
EV values should bottom out around 8 years old as that is how long most of the batteries are guaranteed for. They still follow ICE car depreciation at the moment which is mostly miliage based, but that is likely to change eventually. Batteries dying is a when, not a maybe and its a big expense.
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maybe petrol chaos will kick in. - linked facts/feb-autotrader say, don't twist, that, volume used petrol/ev's have on par inflation.
Do they? Tesla 3 standard at 2/3 years old are selling for £40k with 10,000+ miles and a new one is £43k. Not sure that is following ICE car depreciation but the market is so messed up atm, it might be.