Fuel up/down again

Slam62 · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:15

DiamondMark said:
Sir you go too far, what has the car he drives got to do with it?

(Cockney accent on) Oy! Diamond (Cockney accent of)

Whilst I find your Diamond dealings very amusing (should you not change your name to Del?)

I find that any sane contribution you have to a thread is undermined by your tendency to change your view to follow your motors chums.

Just an observation. I will happily delete and grovellingly apologise if the completely neutral mods think I have over stepped the Mark.

Wicksta · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:15

Dolph said:
Wow, it's just like speaker's corner in here, with the same individual trashing the debate and throwing insults and accusations at anyone who disagrees with him...

You'd think after the amount of times he'd been suspended that he might take a look at the way he posts wouldn't you. Weird.

[TW]Fox · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:17

Biohazard said:
It isn't really, you look at their operations over all.

Again, if it suits you to take one part of the business in isolation and go 'look, little profits that's fine.'

You can't then refuse to parcel it all back together and refuse to accept the overall group position, or activities.

What you are doing is the equivilent of saying that EasyRentaCar makes loads of money because it's owned by Easyjet who DO make loads of money. When a company runs different operating divisions, you appraise them individually not as a collective whole.

Oil is very very profitable, that's all I was trying to get at.

We are not talking about oil, we are talking about petrol.

Kenai · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:17

"Oil is very very profitable, that's all I was trying to get at."

It's not really relevant though is it? There is horrendously little profit in UK retail fuel, more so since supermarkets started savagely undercutting everyone else to draw people into their supermarkets - they happily sell at a loss because they make it back by having attracted you into doing your weekly shop there.

Other companies can't do this though but if they want to sell any fuel they have to operate at tiny tiny profit levels to garner anything at all and as people have mentioned already, many stations do end up just making a loss, some so consistently that they get shut down and some even more consistently than that and decide to wholesale withdraw from the UK retail market. They wouldn't do that if they were making money would they?

The only relevance that oil companies profits overall has is if they subsidise poor forecourt retail performance with their profits from elsewhere but when it all boils down to it, none of that really make any counter to the post you originally replied to that sparked all this off.

Biohazard · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:18

Dolph said:
Wow, it's just like speaker's corner in here, with the same individual trashing the debate and throwing insults and accusations at anyone who disagrees with him...

Is there profit in the UK fuel market Dolph?

DM · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:18

Slam62 said:
(Cockney accent on) Oy! Diamond (Cockney accent of)

Whilst I find your Diamond dealings very amusing (should you not change your name to Del?)

I find that any sane contribution you have to a thread is undermined by your tendency to change your view to follow your motors chums.

Just an observation. I will happily delete and grovellingly apologise if the completely neutral mods think I have over stepped the Mark.

No need to apologise mate, your very welcome to that opinion, and a happy new year.

Wicksta · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:18

Biohazard said:
Is there profit in the UK fuel market Dolph?

You were talking about the forecourt market. Stop doing a MikeHiow.

Simon · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:19

You can see why supermarkets sell fuel as a loss leader now though yet some companies get accused of ripping off drivers. Whats the point of selling fuel if you make no money on it ?

Biohazard · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:19

[TW]Fox;18131421 said:
What you are doing is the equivilent of saying that EasyRentaCar makes loads of money because it's owned by Easyjet who DO make loads of money. When a company runs different operating divisions, you appraise them individually not as a collective whole.

No, it really does depend on the legal structure of the company.

Hard to debate unless we pick an example.

[TW]Fox;18131421 said:
We are not talking about oil, we are talking about petrol.

Which is supplied by oil companies?

Slam62 · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:21

DiamondMark said:
No need to apologise mate, your very welcome to that opinion, and a happy new year.

cool, happy new year to you.

[TW]Fox · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:21

Simon said:
You can see why supermarkets sell fuel as a loss leader now though yet some companies get accused of ripping off drivers. Whats the point of selling fuel if you make no money on it ?

I did think that when I posted it, I knew it'd be you who picked up on it

My point with BP is that in an ideal world the market should dictate that pricing higher than Shell will result in no sales. However, the UK fuel market is based on apathy - people don't even seem to notice the price and just fill up anywhere.

Therefore do I think anyone who buys fuel at BP when it's almost always cheaper elsewhere, even for similar levels of quality fuel, is daft? Yes.

Would I do anything differently if I ran BP's Retail operations? No.

Dolph · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:22

Biohazard said:
Is there profit in the UK fuel market Dolph?

Very little, enough to make it worth doing for individuals, but the big oil conglomerates don't make their money, much of it at all, from retailing fuel.

Biohazard · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:23

Kenai said:
"Oil is very very profitable, that's all I was trying to get at."

It's not really relevant though is it? There is horrendously little profit in UK retail fuel, more so since supermarkets started savagely undercutting everyone else to draw people into their supermarkets - they happily sell at a loss because they make it back by having attracted you into doing your weekly shop there.

I think there is.

Kenai said:
Other companies can't do this though but if they want to sell any fuel they have to operate at tiny tiny profit levels to garner anything at all and as people have mentioned already, many stations do end up just making a loss, some so consistently that they get shut down and some even more consistently than that and decide to wholesale withdraw from the UK retail market. They wouldn't do that if they were making money would they?

If there was NO profit at all.

There would be no petrol stations for us to fill up at.

Quite simply.

None.

Kenai said:
The only relevance that oil companies profits overall has is if they subsidise poor forecourt retail performance with their profits from elsewhere but when it all boils down to it, none of that really make any counter to the post you originally replied to that sparked all this off.

He sparked it off not me, I never claimed there was no profit at all in the UK market.

It does, when you look at the oils sector OVERALL.

OTHERWISE WE'D HAVE NO PETROL STATIONS.

No?

aproctor · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:24

Dolph said:
Very little, enough to make it worth doing for individuals, but the big oil conglomerates don't make their money, much of it at all, from retailing fuel.

Surely big oil conglomerates make money because it is there product and the retail outlet is nothing more than a cost of distribution e.g. Tesco cafes make little money from the service but they are selling Tesco sausages, beans, rolls etc.

Sparky · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:24

Janesy B said:
The actual cost of the product is less than a branded bottle of water, yes the stuff that falls out of the sky, the other 75p is pure tax and pure robbery. Get mad at the government, not the Sri Lankan man running your local Esso who has to sell Razzle, readers wives and ginsters to help prop up his business.

Brings a whole new meaning to Pump & Go at Tesco.

Jez · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:24

Dolph said:
Very little, enough to make it worth doing for individuals, but the big oil conglomerates don't make their money, much of it at all, from retailing fuel.

Or indeed any in the context of the re-investment potential for the release of capital by offloading it all. Where Biohazard is missing the point is that profit in pounds and pence is not the point. The return on the operation is.

[TW]Fox · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:25

Biohazard said:
It does, when you look at the oils sector OVERALL.

OTHERWISE WE'D HAVE NO PETROL STATIONS.

No?

So should we look at the oil sectors profitability overall when we discuss the profitability of selling plastic bags?

Selling plastic bags is a billion pound industry here in the UK!

Biohazard · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:25

Dolph said:
Very little, enough to make it worth doing for individuals, but the big oil conglomerates don't make their money, much of it at all, from retailing fuel.

I concur.

See, joining the debate instead of being a hypocritical goat was it?

Funny how you don't bleat on about fuel tax theft

[TW]Fox · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:26

Biohazard said:
I concur.

You concur with what everyone has been saying all along?

Janesy B · 3 Jan 2011 at 12:27

Biohazard said:
snip

Not sure what it's like on your planet but I have definitely noted the closure of many petrol stations in my area, I can think of at least 3 within 5 sq miles of my house that have closed. Now I don't know why they closed but there's usually one reason why retail outlets close - lack of profitability.

Also a lot of petrol stations are now mini supermarkets and convenience stores, compared to about 10 years ago when you were lucky to get a 20 day old bunch of flowers and a bag of charcoal.