Fuel up/down again

[dave1983]

If this country had any kind of "integrated" transport policy that would be a start, also if we built more affordable houses closer to where actually people needed them that would also be a positive.

Up until then the Governments attitude is people should "get on their bike (car)" and find a job, should people only limit themselves to a job that can be reached by public transport, if that's the case I would imagine millions of people would find themselves "out of a job".

HEADRAT

Totally agree, house prices are way too expensive atm.

what frustrates me more is that i pay £675 renting whereas if i took out a mortgage it would be around £500. but it's the initial 10% deposit required. and it's even harder to rent and save, and also support my family. after all my bills im left with about £100, which is used for fuel.

 

[HEADRAT]

Up until the start doing either of the above for many people fuel duty is just a "TAX on going to work", I can choose to cut down on my "private" motoring, I can't choose to do anything other than drive to work in the morning.

Let make it £5 litre and watch the economy grind to even more of a halt than it has already.

HEADRAT

 

[Muffin`]

If this country had any kind of "integrated" transport policy that would be a start, also if we built more affordable houses closer to where actually people needed them that would also be a positive.

Up until then the Governments attitude is people should "get on their bike (car)" and find a job, should people only limit themselves to a job that can be reached by public transport, if that's the case I would imagine millions of people would find themselves "out of a job".

HEADRAT

The "get on your bike" is just trying to get an attitude change, over the years people have changed to 'what can the government do for me' attitude.

If you live in a metropolitan area, you can get to jobs by using public transport, yes it's harder and yes it's so much easier with a car, not having a car is not an excuse for not having a job.

But when someone from Liverpool leaves their job in Manchester to get a job closer to home it free's up a job in Manchester, it won't be pretty, but it's required with the inevitable energy crisis that will come in the next 10-20 years.

 

[silversurfer]

Eating is a necessity

Food is also non essential. Theres nothing to stop people growing their own in a garden or allotment but no, people are lazy and choose to waste their money on buying it instead hence you can never complain about a rise in prices
Same thing with petrol, buy a bike and burn off some of that beer belly

 

[Muffin`]

Up until the start doing either of the above for many people fuel duty is just a "TAX on going to work", I can choose to cut down on my "private" motoring, I can't choose to do anything other than drive to work in the morning.

Let make it £5 litre and watch the economy grind to even more of a halt than it has already.

HEADRAT

You seem to come across that the Duty and VAT is some sort of punishment and the Chancellor rubs his hands at the thought of price rises. I'm sure you're well aware that UK PLC will have budgeted for spending based on income. As has already been said with people out of jobs, more economical cars and people not driving for leisure it will have a detrimental effect on tax's so with the goverment trying to invest in schemes to get the economy going, lower taxes to encourage business growth and pay out more in benefits somethings got to give.

I'm not for fuel rises, it's a PITA but I can understand the predicament they're in as it's such a sensitive subject with the voters. If they lowered the duty by 5p then it's a big gamble on whether the lowered price then at least matches the tax intake from increased sales. Not that 5p Duty and the VAT on top would make any difference what so ever to my budget, nor I'm sure the rest of the country.

Edit* What would be welcomed is the Fair Fuel Stabiliser, but that seems to have died a death.

 

[Tute]

Thing is Muffin, increasing fuel duty is not the only way to bring more money into the treasury. There are other ways, two of which i've mentioned above, and neither of which are even remotely close to

a) Being a necessity for people.
b) Causing inflation and damage to businesses if they get raised.

Whilst i'm sure fuel duty isn't a "punishment", I think it's milked because the government knows it's a necessity and people will pay it, which is just simply holding the country to ransom.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Totally agree, house prices are way too expensive atm.

what frustrates me more is that i pay £675 renting whereas if i took out a mortgage it would be around £500. but it's the initial 10% deposit required. and it's even harder to rent and save, and also support my family. after all my bills im left with about £100, which is used for fuel.

And it's only going to get worse for the rental market in the years to come.

 

[DRZ]

Decrease the duty on fuel, massively increase the duty on cigarettes and alcohol to make up for it.

This will benefit society as a whole in terms of tax take, mobility and also have a big positive impact on public health.

 

[Firestar_3x]

But don't you think those who choose to subsequently give up smoking and drinking due to costs will decrease total gov tax take.

The current fuel / eco car saga is the perfect example, in many respects the public are making a rod for his own back, buy a cheaper to run car and gov has to make up for the loss in tax take somehow, so the fuel tax goes up.

 

[NathWraith]

Decrease the duty on fuel, massively increase the duty on cigarettes and alcohol to make up for it.

This will benefit society as a whole in terms of tax take, mobility and also have a big positive impact on public health.

I'd be in favour of that.

 

[DRZ]

But don't you think those who choose to subsequently give up smoking and drinking due to costs will decrease total gov tax take.

The current fuel / eco car saga is the perfect example, in many respects the public are making a rod for his own back, buy a cheaper to run car and gov has to make up for the loss in tax take somehow, so the fuel tax goes up.

Which in turn is paid for by reducing the vast sums spent by the NHS on long term care for those suffering smoking-related illnesses and by the public sector as a whole every Fri/Sat night mopping up after the idiots that drink too much...

 

[Brookert]

Cut fuel, help business! Although im not sure the money can be made up elsewhere....

 

[koolpc]

Increase tax on anyone who buys an AMD system? lol

 

[Freefaller]

Oil is back down at the moment too

Problem is, the government have started to budget with the new levels of tax and have got used to the extra revenue. Next years proposed hikes will contribute over 1.5bn - which is hard for them to turn down. :/

Fuel duty is more than the actual product which is infuriating.

How come diesel is more expensive than diesel if it's a less refined fuel to manufacture?

 

[Firestar_3x]

When you stick the crude through the fractionation column you get more Petrol out than Diesel.

 

[Muffin`]

...and in the cracking stage at least (please correct me if I'm wrong firestar, ) home heating oil is the same as diesel, so less supply in the winter

 

[alx]

When you stick the crude through the fractionation column you get more Petrol out than Diesel.

There's also a lack of diesel refining capacity in Europe due to increased demand in recent times. Years gone by the majority of cars were petrol, with just vans, trucks etc using diesel. Now a large proportion of modern cars are diesel, so more diesel is being consumed.

Refineries haven't caught up with this change due to the cost of building a hydrocracker to increase diesel production.

 

[Ivyforce]

The difference today is 16ppl more for Dv than Unl.
At todays' price a typical fair price (Making around 3ppl Gross profit) would be

128.9 for Unl and 144.9 for Dv

You will find supermarkets typically have the biggest difference because they tend to price per grade. Around were I live there are sites at 4p difference and others at 8p.

Problem is, the government have started to budget with the new levels of tax and have got used to the extra revenue.

even though revenue per litre is up, overall revenue has decreased as volume has dropped significantly as people buy less fuel.

 

[Django x2]

If I had a opportunity to make a point (or points) it would cover the following:

• Alter the tax tier (assume 58p Fuel Duty per litre is a constant), don't add that before the 20%VAT. It should be, Fuel, VAT, FD. Not, Fuel, FD, VAT.
• All branded Garages (whether franchised or not) should have the same fuel price nationwide. By this, I mean, all Shell garages are the same, all Esso garages are the same, all Tesco, Sainsbury's, etc. Non Branded (who purchase fuel directly) can charge what they like. Other items sold in petrol stations can remain volatile.
• And lastly, not directly related, alter cost of VED to mirror mileage covered.

 

[Ivyforce]

All branded Garages (whether franchised or not) should have the same fuel price nationwide. By this, I mean, all Shell garages are the same, all Esso garages are the same, all Tesco, Sainsbury's, etc. Non Branded (who purchase fuel directly) can charge what they like. Other items sold in petrol stations can remain volatile.

Problem with this is that the cost to each site is not the same, so one site is platts+1.5p another site could have platts +3.5p

So you now get areas which are profitable and other areas which are not with a national price. (like rural v urban currently but on a much larger scale)