G.skill Trident Neo 3800 CL14 issues

OC2000 · 6 Dec 2020 at 19:25

I have the 4 stick 3800 CL14 kit, but really struggling with it.

I have the 5950X and Crosshair Dark Hero

Setting XMP is hit and miss. Sometimes it will boot and other times it won’t. It will post an F9 the OD or 07. Resetting works sometimes.

I’ve inputted the safe 3800 CL14 with the DRAM calc and tried different alternatives, and when it does boot it gets mem errors on mem test. This is at 1.5V too.

trying 2133 with a 2000 FLK outright won’t post too.

Any suggestions on what I can do on this motherboard to add more stability?

Cyber-Mav · 6 Dec 2020 at 21:45

Maybe memory controller on cpu is the limiter. Have you tried 3200 speed and doing memtests?

MaXxBoulton · 6 Dec 2020 at 22:53

FCLK amd MCLK need to be at a 1:1 ration. load ram at XMP but back the speed down to 2400Mhz and work your way up until you get problems.

4sticks @ 3800 CL14 no ryzern is tough

Joxeon · 7 Dec 2020 at 00:43

Is it working ok with just 2 sticks?

MaXxBoulton said:
4sticks @ 3800 CL14 no ryzern is tough

Yeah, have a feeling there will be a lot of posts like this after youtubers like GN and HU bigged up using 4 sticks over 2 without explaining that it is harder to get stable especially at high speed with tight timings.

OC2000 · 7 Dec 2020 at 00:52

Nope getting constant F9 issues with 4 sticks or 2 and just tested leaving everything in the bios to auto and setting the ram to 3200 which also causes an F9. So far the only thing that works out the box is 2133.

I can boot into windows using XMP, but it takes a few tries for the bios to post. Mem test passes with XMP too. Using the Ryzen calculator fails mem test even with safe settings and down clocked to 3733.

I may try a different motherboard and see if the same is happening.

Joxeon · 7 Dec 2020 at 00:57

OC2000 said:
Nope getting constant F9 issues with 4 sticks or 2 and just tested leaving everything in the bios to auto and setting the ram to 3200 which also causes an F9. So far the only thing that works out the box is 2133.

I can boot into windows using XMP, but it takes a few tries for the bios to post. Mem test passes with XMP too. Using the Ryzen calculator fails mem test even with safe settings and down clocked to 3733.

I may try a different motherboard and see if the same is happening.

If it is still happening with 2 sticks then it's most likely fclk related but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad chip though, it's more likely that due to the bios being new that things aren't optimised properly yet.

Have a look at some of the weird voltages used to get FCLK running high on this board.

OC2000 · 7 Dec 2020 at 08:26

Joxeon said:
If it is still happening with 2 sticks then it's most likely fclk related but that doesn't necessarily mean you have a bad chip though, it's more likely that due to the bios being new that things aren't optimised properly yet.

Have a look at some of the weird voltages used to get FCLK running high on this board.

Were those voltages set to automatic to get that, or did you have to set them manually? Im going to try XMP with lower speeds shortly to see if I still get F9 as MaXx suggests. If it does happen, Im going to switch to my Aorus extreme X570 to see if the same occurs. If it continues to do this, I will RMA the CPU. I have had issues with this CPU since getting it, but it could be because the Dark Hero is a new motherboard and the BIOS is not properly sorted yet.

I've already ordered the 16GB x 2 3800 CL14 version of this RAM and will return the 4x8GB 3800 CL14 which cost £200 more!

OC2000 · 7 Dec 2020 at 08:35

MaXxBoulton said:
FCLK amd MCLK need to be at a 1:1 ration. load ram at XMP but back the speed down to 2400Mhz and work your way up until you get problems.

4sticks @ 3800 CL14 no ryzern is tough

I took 2 sticks out, set XMP and reduced speed to 2400. It F9ed when I reached 3200. Would would you think this. I had no issues running 3600 CL14 on my 3950X on this motherboard with this ram.

I've submitted an RMA with the competitor

MaXxBoulton · 7 Dec 2020 at 08:56

To quote AMD..
"The 5950X supports up to 128 GiB of dual-channel DDR4-3200 memory."

4 sticks will likely reduces the 3200mhz rated speed. You will got some good and some back chips but if you can run 3200mhz with 2 sticks your cpu is probably fine.

You can't compare your 5950x to your old 3950x

OC2000 · 7 Dec 2020 at 09:48

I just tried changing the 2 stick which were failing 3200 from A1 / B1 to A2/B2 and got this running stable. Would this be a cpu or motherboard issue if A1 B1 can't do 3200 mhz stable?

OC2000 · 7 Dec 2020 at 09:52

MaXxBoulton said:
To quote AMD..
"The 5950X supports up to 128 GiB of dual-channel DDR4-3200 memory."

4 sticks will likely reduces the 3200mhz rated speed. You will got some good and some back chips but if you can run 3200mhz with 2 sticks your cpu is probably fine.

You can't compare your 5950x to your old 3950x

This issue was 3200 was causing F9 error too in the A1 / B1 config. In fact I was getting the F9 at 2400 too. Its random. A2/B2 seems solid as a rock in the pic above

Joxeon · 7 Dec 2020 at 10:06

A2 B2 are the slots that should be used when only using 2 sticks.

The voltages were manually set since the bios default voltage handling are a mess right now.

GregI · 7 Dec 2020 at 10:14

Sounds like you just ran into the weakness of Asus. Memory overclocking. You'd need an X570 Unify or similar to get 4 stick 3800C14 stable.

and as above never use A1/B1 in a 2 stick config.

MrPils · 7 Dec 2020 at 12:02

OC2000 said:
This issue was 3200 was causing F9 error too in the A1 / B1 config. In fact I was getting the F9 at 2400 too. Its random. A2/B2 seems solid as a rock in the pic above

For AMD when using 2 sticks you always use A2 and B2. RTFM issue there I'm afraid, but its a common gotcha when moving from Intel to AMD

It still doesn't explain why your 4 stick config wasn't working though - were you trying to run 4 sticks with gear down mode disabled? You'll need to enable that and drop down to TRCDRD 15 most likely to get all 4 sticks working unless you're happy to run above 1.5v. There's a few more pointers for you below based off your zentimings screenshot above.

tFAW 12 does not work on AMD, minimum for tRRDS is 4 so minimum tFAW is 16. You can set lower tFAW but it does nothing.

tRRDL you want to get down to 4, tWTRS and tWTRL aim for 4 and 8. Should make that with B-Die without issue.

tRDWR 8 and tWRRD 1 is very tight and not usually stable on AMD at 3800mhz. 10/1, 9/1 or 8/3 are where you'll most likely end up, its usually best to leave these on auto until last.

tRFC works best as a mutiple of tRC. Try 240 for stability (tRC x 6) - if it passes then test from 236 to 244 for best performance with a few memtest default passes in the ryzen dram calc. If 240 fails then try 280 (tRC x 7) and then test the same -4 to +4 range.

For what its worth Asus has bios problems at the moment. There's many stories of various memory problems going on. Personally none of my single sided B-Die works properly in my Impact on any of the new ryzen bioses though its fine on my Gigabyte board with a Ryzen 3000 cpu. Double sided B-Die though Im having no issues at all.

OC2000 · 7 Dec 2020 at 12:51

MrPils said:
For AMD when using 2 sticks you always use A2 and B2. RTFM issue there I'm afraid, but its a common gotcha when moving from Intel to AMD

It still doesn't explain why your 4 stick config wasn't working though - were you trying to run 4 sticks with gear down mode disabled? You'll need to enable that and drop down to TRCDRD 15 most likely to get all 4 sticks working unless you're happy to run above 1.5v. There's a few more pointers for you below based off your zentimings screenshot above.

tFAW 12 does not work on AMD, minimum for tRRDS is 4 so minimum tFAW is 16. You can set lower tFAW but it does nothing.

tRRDL you want to get down to 4, tWTRS and tWTRL aim for 4 and 8. Should make that with B-Die without issue.

tRDWR 8 and tWRRD 1 is very tight and not usually stable on AMD at 3800mhz. 10/1, 9/1 or 8/3 are where you'll most likely end up, its usually best to leave these on auto until last.

tRFC works best as a mutiple of tRC. Try 240 for stability (tRC x 6) - if it passes then test from 236 to 244 for best performance with a few memtest default passes in the ryzen dram calc. If 240 fails then try 280 (tRC x 7) and then test the same -4 to +4 range.

For what its worth Asus has bios problems at the moment. There's many stories of various memory problems going on. Personally none of my single sided B-Die works properly in my Impact on any of the new ryzen bioses though its fine on my Gigabyte board with a Ryzen 3000 cpu. Double sided B-Die though Im having no issues at all.

Thanks for that info, I'll look into those settings. I've ordered the 2x16gb 3800 CL14 of the same Ram and will return the 4 stick as I have a decent return window on it.

With 4 sticks in, It sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. If its been off overnight for example it will load up with a 07 error, or a F9 / OD error or if I change anything completely unrelated in the BIOS and resave i.e. changing the boot order. This is using the XMP profile which has loose timings and has happened when lowering it XMP to 3200.

In my experience with hardware if something that isn't solved on the first page of search google, it's most likely a hardware fault.

Here is the XMP profile when I does actually get into Windows with 4 sticks. Just noticed the FCLK / UCLK and MCLK are all different timings, Ill see if manually setting those still works.

MrPils · 7 Dec 2020 at 13:27

Yeah thats made a mess of your fabric clocks - uclk:mclk mode has gone to 1:2 and its fixed your fabric clock at 1800mhz as if you were running the ram at 3600mhz.

My single sided sticks (Patriot 4400C19 and G.Skill 4000C15) work fine at 16-16-16-1T, they get less and less reliable as the timings are improved. At the 14-14-14-1T settings they run at in my gigabyte board they frequently wont load windows on the Impact and sometimes no post (0D, 1D or F9). Once in a blue moon though they're fully stable until the next reboot.

The double sided kits I have (an old corsair 3333mhz 16-18-18 quad channel 4 x 16gb kit and my new G.Skill F4-4000C16D-32GVK kit) by contrast work great as long as GDM is enabled. 14-15-12-GDM is fully stable with my G.Skill double sided sticks yet will not post with any of my single sided sticks

Blackjack Davy · 7 Dec 2020 at 14:39

OC2000 · 7 Dec 2020 at 16:46

MrPils said:
Yeah thats made a mess of your fabric clocks - uclk:mclk mode has gone to 1:2 and its fixed your fabric clock at 1800mhz as if you were running the ram at 3600mhz.

My single sided sticks (Patriot 4400C19 and G.Skill 4000C15) work fine at 16-16-16-1T, they get less and less reliable as the timings are improved. At the 14-14-14-1T settings they run at in my gigabyte board they frequently wont load windows on the Impact and sometimes no post (0D, 1D or F9). Once in a blue moon though they're fully stable until the next reboot.

The double sided kits I have (an old corsair 3333mhz 16-18-18 quad channel 4 x 16gb kit and my new G.Skill F4-4000C16D-32GVK kit) by contrast work great as long as GDM is enabled. 14-15-12-GDM is fully stable with my G.Skill double sided sticks yet will not post with any of my single sided sticks

I loosened the water block on the CPU which seems to have made things bit more stable. It may have been over tightened, but Im going to remove 2 of the 4 sticks permanently now and wait for the order of new ram which is quoted for Jan. At least I can rule out the need to RMA the CPU now. I've lowered the tRFC to 240 which works fine, and will go through your other suggestions a bit later. Its amazing how much more stable the system feels when using 2 sticks instead of 4!

Going to try and work out how I can boot with a 2000 FCLK now too.

Thanks for your help.

MrPils · 7 Dec 2020 at 17:55

OC2000 said:
I loosened the water block on the CPU which seems to have made things bit more stable. It may have been over tightened, but Im going to remove 2 of the 4 sticks permanently now and wait for the order of new ram which is quoted for Jan. At least I can rule out the need to RMA the CPU now. I've lowered the tRFC to 240 which works fine, and will go through your other suggestions a bit later. Its amazing how much more stable the system feels when using 2 sticks instead of 4!

Going to try and work out how I can boot with a 2000 FCLK now too.

Thanks for your help.

No problem.

If the dark hero has a 2402 version then try that - you'll get WHEA errors but it will go to 2133 fCLK if your cpu can get there too. The higher you run fclk the more WHEA errors youll get. They start at 3666mhz...

OC2000 · 7 Dec 2020 at 18:02

MrPils said:
No problem.

If the dark hero has a 2402 version then try that - you'll get WHEA errors but it will go to 2133 fCLK if your cpu can get there too. The higher you run fclk the more WHEA errors youll get. They start at 3666mhz...

The only Bios available is the 2601 BIOS. I take it the rumoured BIOS to provide more stability for higher FCLK is not out yet?