Geforce GTX 780, 770 coming in May

Gregster · 19 May 2013 at 11:55

Rusty0611 said:
PSU degradation is always touted to scare people without any actual factual base (from what I can find)

Same as what I could find. I wouldn't be surprised if a few workers from Corsair/XFX/Seasonic etc chuck it out there now and then. A bit of spin helps at times.

Kaapstad · 19 May 2013 at 12:00

Gregster said:
Same as what I could find. I wouldn't be surprised if a few workers from Corsair/XFX/Seasonic etc chuck it out there now and then. A bit of spin helps at times.

I have heard of PSUs running at above their rated output, I was wondering if this is designed in to allow for ageing later, to help the PSU maintain at least it's rated output.

NirK · 19 May 2013 at 12:00

Well basically it is capacitor ageing which does indeed happen depending on the quality of the capacitors, sort of like a rechargable battery gets worse over time. So the PSU will lose some power over time but I think 10% a year is silly, especially with high quality brands such as antec, corsair etc.

Gregster · 19 May 2013 at 12:07

NirK said:
Well basically it is capacitor ageing which does indeed happen depending on the quality of the capacitors, sort of like a rechargable battery gets worse over time. So the PSU will lose some power over time but I think 10% a year is silly, especially with high quality brands such as antec, corsair etc.

Yer, I wouldn't argue at all in honesty and 10% does seem like a crock of poo.

Kaapstad said:
I have heard of PSUs running at above their rated output, I was wondering if this is designed in to allow for ageing later, to help the PSU maintain at least it's rated output.

Could be. I need to swat up on PSU's. I have my power meter and could be worth plugging in varying components and see what they draw at the wall with myt other PSU powering the rest of the components.

NirK · 19 May 2013 at 12:11

Rusty0611 said:
PSU degradation is always touted to scare people without any actual factual base (from what I can find)

Here is some information...

"Capacitors are typically rated for 2000 hours at their maximum temperature rating of 105°C, which works out to 32,000 hours at a more typical 65°C operation, or 42 months of continuous use. In practice low quality capacitors often fail in much less than half that time, while high quality capacitors can easily survive 5 years of continuous operation. Capacitance may actually not decrease much, but ESR often worsens greatly, causing the same effect on ripple."

So if the PSU if 5 years old then it could definitely be getting a bit flaky, especially if it has been on 24/7...

Gregster · 19 May 2013 at 12:18

Good info Nirk

Rusty0611 · 19 May 2013 at 12:28

NirK said:
Here is some information...

"Capacitors are typically rated for 2000 hours at their maximum temperature rating of 105°C, which works out to 32,000 hours at a more typical 65°C operation, or 42 months of continuous use. In practice low quality capacitors often fail in much less than half that time, while high quality capacitors can easily survive 5 years of continuous operation. Capacitance may actually not decrease much, but ESR often worsens greatly, causing the same effect on ripple."

So if the PSU if 5 years old then it could definitely be getting a bit flaky, especially if it has been on 24/7...

It's all if's, but's and maybe's though... nobody has ever really looked at PSUs specifically to determine the effect over time of continuous high usage other than to make abstract points.

vapor matt · 19 May 2013 at 12:31

So if the PSU if 5 years old then it could definitely be getting a bit flaky, especially if it has been on 24/7...

interesting info, so if you have an overclocked system and have been giving it some beans for a while, the psu can degrade over time. you wouldnt want to spike 2 or 4 titans with ageing PSU, ripple would be higher i guess

whyscotty · 19 May 2013 at 12:32

K1LLER HORNET said:
You guys think I can run 2x GTX 780 with a 5yr old Corsair 750w PSU.
I've used the PSU calculator site & get quoted around 780w with my system.

Guess I'll have to upgrade my PSU if/when I get a second card.

As others have said you'll be good to go, but

As your about to spend between £500, possibly £1000
on new Gpu's I would be inclined to renew a old PSU

just my 2c's

humbug · 19 May 2013 at 12:34

Kaapstad said:
Boost 2.0 feels like a sales gimmick to me, Titans seem to work the same as any other 6 series card. Don't let them get too hot and they will boost higher. I may be wrong but it does seem to work the same as any of the rest of the 6 series, the knack is to keep them cool.

Edit Also if the extra voltage is available when the card is within a set of temps, it is actually a fancy way of throttling the card when it gets too hot, rather than a performance boost.

If its anything like the new boost on the Radeon cards (and I think it is) I quite like it

I first noticed the difference with this one compared with the Gigabyte, if i have vSync on mine will down clock to 500Mhz or even 300Mhz for as long as it holds a steady 60FPS, as soon i re enter the game it clocks right back up to 1175... and it does that transitioning seamlessly.
I also put some old games on to see what would happen and it would just sit at 500Mhz with a constant 60 FPS, turn vSync off and it clocks up with silly frame rates.

Its a clever system.

Gregster · 19 May 2013 at 12:49

humbug said:
If its anything like the new boost on the Radeon cards (and I think it is) I quite like it

I first noticed the difference with this one compared with the Gigabyte, if i have vSync on mine will down clock to 500Mhz or even 300Mhz for as long as it holds a steady 60FPS, as soon i re enter the game it clocks right back up to 1175... and it does that transitioning seamlessly.
I also put some old games on to see what would happen and it would just sit at 500Mhz with a constant 60 FPS, turn vSync off and it clocks up with silly frame rates.

Its a clever system.

Boost works and works very well, it just takes the fun away from benching and leaves me scratching my head to what my actual clocks were. As soon as it hits 70c on a Titan, regardless of setting the temp at 85c, it will start to throttle (which is fine) but I would prefer to have it as an option more than a compulsory setting.

NirK · 19 May 2013 at 13:47

Rusty0611 said:
It's all if's, but's and maybe's though... nobody has ever really looked at PSUs specifically to determine the effect over time of continuous high usage other than to make abstract points.

Capacitors are the things in PSU that degrade over time and that is the average specs for capacitors. If you want to look at what capacitor type is used in a certain PSU and then look for the average lifespan I am sure it would be quite easy to find a spec sheet or something... Would be good if a website like tomshardware or something would do a proper test on PSU's though.

humbug · 19 May 2013 at 13:55

Gregster said:
Boost works and works very well, it just takes the fun away from benching and leaves me scratching my head to what my actual clocks were. As soon as it hits 70c on a Titan, regardless of setting the temp at 85c, it will start to throttle (which is fine) but I would prefer to have it as an option more than a compulsory setting.

I have already got used to it, I have not had any throttling with it yet other than when MSI AB locked the fan at 25%, i had the headphones on so didn't notice the slow fan until i caught it in the corner of my eye, 97c throttled from 1200 to 925 :eek:

.

Other than that the highest i had seen was 82c during stressing, no throttling. But if i don't turn up Board Power Line its up and down all over the place between 925 / 975 and the overclock.

It seems to have 6 stages, Idle @ 150 then 300, 500, 925, 975 - Overclock.

humbug · 19 May 2013 at 14:17

I think the thing to know about capacitors is they are essentially just rechargeable batteries.

And we all know what happens to batteries once they get to a certain age or get used a lot.

MOOGLEYS · 19 May 2013 at 14:20

I spent hours of my life replacing capacitor packs on aircraft equipment because of ageing. Tbh if your spending 1k on gpu's a hundred quid on a new psu cant really hurt.

Rusty0611 · 19 May 2013 at 15:07

NirK said:
Capacitors are the things in PSU that degrade over time and that is the average specs for capacitors. If you want to look at what capacitor type is used in a certain PSU and then look for the average lifespan I am sure it would be quite easy to find a spec sheet or something... Would be good if a website like tomshardware or something would do a proper test on PSU's though.

Yes, thank you, I'm quite aware of what they are and what they do.

My point is that nobody has ever quantified it nor has there been any proper analysis on it. Just general scare-mongering.

NirK · 19 May 2013 at 15:38

Rusty0611 said:
Yes, thank you, I'm quite aware of what they are and what they do.

My point is that nobody has ever quantified it nor has there been any proper analysis on it. Just general scare-mongering.

My point was that although there have not been any actual tests for the lifespan / power output of PSU's by hardware websites as far as I know... The part of the PSU which is known to degrade over time (capacitors) you could find the type of capacitor in a given PSU and then find the specs for those capacitors and this would tell you what the likely power loss % would be for the PSU...

Although this is a PITA and I agree that a website should just put 10 PSU brands on full load for a year or something and see what the power loss % is though....

K1LLER HORNET · 19 May 2013 at 15:47

Thanks for all the info everyone.

I'm most likely going to get a single 780 for now seeing as they're gonna be like £500 and maybe get another down the line.

Any recommendations on good quality PSU's?

Also, there must be some way of checking the total wattage output of a PSU?

Buckster · 19 May 2013 at 16:04

not that I know of (ref testing PSUs)

I've measured 450W from the wall with my single 570 ... ! (Corsair HX850)

NirK · 19 May 2013 at 16:04

You can buy a meter that plugs into the plug socket and measures how much you are using. Although actually that is not telling you the max output of the psu.