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Geforce GTX1180/2080 Speculation thread

Really disappointed in sli now had it was exellent but for certain game but no so good in others . I thought this rtx thing was for 4K as well.
 
Ray Traced Battlefield V Currently Runs at sub-30FPS in 4K, but DICE Has Tweaks in Hand to Increase Performance
Eurogamer’s DigitalFoundry posted a thorough analysis of the NVIDIA RTX implementation found in Battlefield V’s demo at Gamescom 2018. As usual, the video delves into great technical detail explaining why the game’s raytraced reflections have a higher fidelity while being far more accurate than the previously used techniques.


What’s more, though, DigitalFoundry spoke with some DICE graphics engineers at the event. While doing so, they tested increasing the default 1080p resolution (running at over 60 frames per second as we reported earlier this week) to 1440p, lowering the average frame rate to 40-50 FPS. On the other hand, native 4K resolution dropped the frame rate to below 30FPS, though the folks at DICE were surprised the game was running at all at 2160p given the short amount of time they had to work with the new GeForce RTX cards (roughly two weeks). However, critically, they have already discussed with DigitalFoundry some tweaks that could massively improve performance.

Furthermore, there’s work to be done on the geometry rendering that can benefit raytracing performance as well. While triangle count apparently doesn’t truly impact RT performance in Battlefield V, the amount of singular ‘instances’ drawn on the screen (for example, doors, windows et cetera) does have a sizable effect. DICE is investigating the possibility to merge the instances into the same structure, which could lead to an almost 30% increase in raytracing performance.

For example, currently the resolution for each ray is the same as the chosen internal resolution. That means 4K if you’re displaying the game at 3840×2160. DICE expressed their intention to give users fine control over the raytracing implementation. Lowering the raytracing resolution (while keeping the internal resolution at 4K) or the amount of rays shot per pixel. According to DigitalFoundry, this shouldn’t be an issue since the Ray Traced NVIDIA RTX powered Reflections are already extremely crisp in the Battlefield V demo tested at Gamescom 2018.

Finally, the developers will be trying to utilize the RT cores in the GeForce RTX GPU as soon as possible in the rendering pipeline. In the demo, raytracing only occurred after the G-Buffer rasterization, which inevitably slowed performance. Ideally, though, raytracing should happen asynchronously alongside the rasterization and that could lead to a significant FPS boost.

Of course, there are also driver-level optimizations that NVIDIA will undoubtedly deliver by the time Battlefield V is out (October 19th, though early access will start earlier). We’ll only be able to draw the conclusions at that time.
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https://wccftech.com/ray-traced-battlefield-v-runs-sub-30-4k/
 
In years how far off is AMD to Nvidia in challenging again at the top?

Because we need AMD to challenge or we will have to suffer these insane prices.

Or maybe it wouldn't make a difference? Look at Apple vs Android. Apple is getting more and more expensive (phones) whilst super cheap Android phones doesn't seem to make a blind bit of difference to Apple prices.
 
harmattan said:
4k below 30FPS... with some more realistic reflections... for $1200. This is what we've come to.
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This is what I am struggling to comprehend, and where the fault lies with all these rumours, leaks and low performance expectations. It just makes NO SENSE!! Let's face it, most of those people with enough disposable income to afford a £1200+ GPU are not gaming at 1080p anymore. They are at 1440p, ultrawide or 4K... with absolutely NO intention of buying a 1080p monitor just so they can experience ray tracing. Makes. No. Sense.

Further to that, if only the mighty 2080Ti can achieve satisfactory performance, it will make the 2080 and 2070 complete junk cards in respect to RTX and not remotely worthy of that branding. Makes. No. Sense.

So this is what makes me doubt all this 'in the toilet' performance speculation, and I have to believe these cards will perform FAR better than is being suggested. Whether that comes in the form of some amazing and swift driver updates or just devs figuring it out, I don't know, but I simply cannot believe acceptable ray tracing performance is going to be the sole purview of a £1200 GPU on a crappy 1080p monitor. Makes. No. Sense.

If this does turn out to be the case then Nvidia are quite simply finished. Jensen Huang has been replaced by a robot from the future with the sole intention of driving his company in to the ground due to them committing some unspeakable act of horror in the near future that benevolent robots from the future have been sent back in time to correct. OR these cards will actually perform rather well at ray tracing across the 2070/2080/2080Ti range and everyone will be happy. It's basically one of those two things.

:rolleyes:
 
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scubes said:
Pc gaming is a joke now thanks to nvidias prices of there tech ..
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That tired old rubbish.

Does your PC became unable to play a game because a new cards are coming out like a Robocop directive 4 :rolleyes:

Have lower priced cards suddenly disappeared from all sources :confused:

all aboard the hyperbolic blame train, woo-woooo.
 
Legend said:
This is what I am struggling to comprehend, and where the fault lies with all these rumours, leaks and performance expectations. It just makes NO SENSE!! Let's face it, most of those people with enough disposable income to afford a £1200+ GPU are not gaming at 1080p anymore. They are at 1440p, ultrawide or 4K... with absolutely NO intention of buying a 1080p monitor just so they can experience ray tracing. Makes. No. Sense.

Further to that, if only the mighty 2080Ti can achieve satisfactory performance, it will make the 2080 and 2070 complete junk cards in respect to RTX and not remotely worthy of that branding. Makes. No. Sense.

So this is what makes me doubt all this 'in the toilet' performance speculation, and I have to believe these cards will perform FAR better than is being suggested. Whether that comes in the form of some amazing and swift driver updates or just devs figuring it out, I don't know, but I simply cannot believe acceptable ray tracing performance is going to be the sole purview of a £1200 GPU on a crappy 1080p monitor.

If this does turn out to be the case then Nvidia are quite simply finished. Jensen Huang has been replaced by a robot from the future with the sole intention of driving his company in to the ground due to them committing some unspeakable act of horror in the near future that benevolent robots from the future have been sent back in time to correct. OR these cards will actually perform rather well at ray tracing across the 2070/2080/2080Ti range and everyone will be happy. It's basically one of those two things.
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It makes no sense to you because you don't get Ray Tracing. Some people have been looking for this technology for years. And been able to play a game at 1080p with Real time Ray Tracing is like a dream for them. There are also people out there who are mad keen to try out this technology and render their own scenes, games whatever using the new hardware available and those people are like kids in a candy shop.

And, why would it drive the company to the ground? This the first generation in a tech that's truly ground breaking. Even if it's just getting developers onboard for the second generation, it had to happen sometime. And look at it this way, those people who love to get onboard early and pay the early adopter tax, they are paving the way for the rest of us. It means when we get on board there will be a plentiful supply of games and all the first generations bugs will be sorted out.

I won't be buying one, because I think the price is ridiculous. But, I am not blind to how big a step forward this is.
 
melmac said:
It makes no sense to you because you don't get Ray Tracing. Some people have been looking for this technology for years. And been able to play a game at 1080p with Real time Ray Tracing is like a dream for them. There are also people out there who are mad keen to try out this technology and render their own scenes, games whatever using the new hardware available and those people are like kids in a candy shop.

And, why would it drive the company to the ground? This the first generation in a tech that's truly ground breaking. Even if it's just getting developers onboard for the second generation, it had to happen sometime. And look at it this way, those people who love to get onboard early and pay the early adopter tax, they are paving the way for the rest of us. It means when we get on board there will be a plentiful supply of games and all the first generations bugs will be sorted out.

I won't be buying one, because I think the price is ridiculous. But, I am not blind to how big a step forward this is.
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I 'get' ray tracing and understand how much of a holy grail it is. But if the cards can't do it, SO WHAT??!! The cure for cancer is also a pretty big deal... but you're not going to pay through the nose for a medication that claims to cure it, but in reality does no such thing!

Nvidia are putting their reputation on the line here. Their presentation obviously did not allude to a sole 2080Ti being their crowning glory, the one and only GPU just able pull off ray tracing. No, they have named an entire range of GPUs off the back of this tech and sold the idea to millions of people that glorious ray traced gaming experiences are just around the corner... from $599!

Look, I believe this WILL actually work... I think the performance numbers are going to be far better than is being suggested, because the alternative won't have people not buying cards because they're too expensive. That's only ever a short term problem, as prices drop a bit and people realise how great they are. If these cards don't delivery, they won't sell because people will realise they don't actually work!! That's a FAR bigger problem, but one I firmly believe Nvidia aren't stupid enough to have created for themselves. But we shall see...
 
Legend said:
I 'get' ray tracing and understand how much of a holy grail it is. But if the cards can't do it, SO WHAT??!! The cure for cancer is also a pretty big deal... but you're not going to pay through the nose for a medication that claims to cure it, but in reality does no such thing!

Nvidia are putting their reputation on the line here. Their presentation obviously did not allude to a sole 2080Ti being able to just pull off ray tracing. No, they have named an entire range of GPUs off the back of this tech.

Look, I believe this WILL actually work... I think the performance numbers are going to be far better than is being suggested, because the alternative won't have people not buying cards because they're too expensive. That's only ever a short term problem, as prices drop a bit and people realise how great they are. If these cards don't delivery, they won't sell because people will realise they don't actually work!! That's a FAR bigger problem, but one I firmly believe Nvidia aren't stupid enough to have created for themselves. But we shall see...
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They are likely to be very fast, especially with dlss games. They also happen to have raytracing tacked on as well. I guess that gives everyone a reason to buy one no matter what kind of display they own. Even someone with a cheap hd monitor will see a large improvement in graphics vs a cheaper card. People with a 4k screen will benefit from high speed dlss games. It's win win isn't it?
 
jjgreenwood said:
They are likely to be very fast, especially with dlss games. They also happen to have raytracing tacked on as well. I guess that gives everyone a reason to buy one no matter what kind of display they own. Even someone with a cheap hd monitor will see a large improvement in graphics vs a cheaper card. People with a 4k screen will benefit from high speed dlss games. It's win win isn't it?
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Well yes, there's obviously more to these cards than JUST the ray tracing aspect, but it's still the main selling point, and if, as a 2070 or 2080 owner, you turn on RTX in a game (let's say 6 months from now when there's a few titles out and drivers have matured) and your FPS counter dips in to the low 30's... this is going result in an excrement storm the like we've never seen before! I don't actually think this is what will happen, but it is the way many people are talking this down.
 
Legend said:
Well yes, there's obviously more to these cards than JUST the ray tracing aspect, but it's still the main selling point, and if, as a 2070 or 2080 owner, you turn on RTX in a game (let's say 6 months from now when there's a few titles out and drivers have matured) and your FPS counter dips in to the low 30's... this is going result in an excrement storm the like we've never seen before! I don't actually think this is what will happen, but it is the way many people are talking this down.
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Doesn't that always happen with gameworks functions anyway? It always seems to for me whether it be the fancy hair in Witcher 3 or the fancy smoke in Batman it always nails performance. To get decent performance at a high resolution it always seems to need a couple of high end cards.
 
Legend said:
Well yes, there's obviously more to these cards than JUST the ray tracing aspect, but it's still the main selling point, and if, as a 2070 or 2080 owner, you turn on RTX in a game (let's say 6 months from now when there's a few titles out and drivers have matured) and your FPS counter dips in to the low 30's... this is going result in an excrement storm the like we've never seen before! I don't actually think this is what will happen, but it is the way many people are talking this down.
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Yeah, but, you continue to miss the point that there more than likely will be settings that you can turn up or down depending on the GPU you have, You could just have global illumination running and would allow you to get playable frame rates on your 2070. Or if you have the 2080Ti, you could turn on full scene Ray Tracing and that would make your FPS plummet, but look fantastic.
 
jjgreenwood said:
Doesn't that always happen with gameworks functions anyway? It always seems to for me whether it be the fancy hair in Witcher 3 or the fancy smoke in Batman it always nails performance. To get decent performance at a high resolution it always seems to need a couple of high end cards.
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Nvidia didn't sell an entire line of 'GWX' GPU's based on the promise of smooth functionality of those Gameworks features. Ray tracing is something else, and clearly a far bigger deal. If ray tracing at 1440p (for example) absolutely requires x2 2080Ti to run even remotely smooth, then that's a problem. A BIG problem. I don't think that will be the case, I'm just highlighting a 'what if' scenario.


melmac said:
Yeah, but, you continue to miss the point that there more than likely will be settings that you can turn up or down depending on the GPU you have, You could just have global illumination running and would allow you to get playable frame rates on your 2070. Or if you have the 2080Ti, you could turn on full scene Ray Tracing and that would make your FPS plummet, but look fantastic.
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I'm not missing that at all... I even said it somewhere, that on a 2070/2080 RTX settings/details may need to be turned down, just as has always been case playing certain games at certain resolutions. However, if it's to the point where you can't even use RTX without the game grinding to a halt, and a 2080Ti is a NECESSITY to actually enjoy it... and I'm not saying this will happen, I'm just following the logical line of what many people are saying about its expected performance... then THAT is where there will be big trouble. But yeah, if it's just a settings thing, no big deal, and I'm inclined to think that will actually be the result. This is not what is being alluded to by many however.
 
Legend said:
Nvidia didn't sell an entire line of 'GWX' GPU's based on the promise of smooth functionality of those Gameworks features. Ray tracing is something else, and clearly a far bigger deal. If ray tracing at 1440p (for example) absolutely requires x2 2080Ti to run even remotely smooth, then that's a problem. A BIG problem. I don't think that will be the case, I'm just highlighting a 'what if' scenario.




I'm not missing that at all... I even said it somewhere, that on a 2070/2080 RTX settings/details may need to be turned down, just as has always been case playing certain games at certain resolutions. However, if it's to the point where you can't even use RTX without the game grinding to a halt, and a 2080Ti is a NECESSITY to actually enjoy it... and I'm not saying this will happen, I'm just following the logical line of what many people are saying about its expected performance... then THAT is where there will be big trouble. But yeah, if it's just a settings thing, no big deal, and I'm inclined to think that will actually be the result. This is not what is being alluded to by many however.
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I think that when they brought out the hot, loud and really quite expensive GTX 480 most of the talk was about tessalation which was a new DX11 feature at the time. Its not the first time this has happened, and we all take tessalation for granted now:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2977...x-470-6-months-late-was-it-worth-the-wait-/20

With that out of the way, let’s take a moment to discuss Fermi’s future prospects. Fermi’s compute-heavy and tessellation-heavy design continues to interest us but home users won’t find an advantage to that design today. This is a card that bets on the future and we don’t have our crystal ball. With some good consumer-oriented GPGPU programs and developers taking up variable tessellation NVIDIA could get a lot out of this card, or if that fails to happen they could get less than they hoped for. All we can do is sit and watch – it’s much too early to place our bets.
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At that time there was plenty of claims it was twice as fast as anything else too, and it was in the tessalation benchmark which was pretty much the only thing using large amounts of tessalation at the time until Metro 2033 was released.
 
EastCoastHandle said:
But tessellation on nvidia cards didn't require one to lower resolution in order to play it. Sure it was a performance hit but those with 480/580 was sailing along just fine, for example.
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I’m pretty sure the level of Tessalation early doors certainly caused issues for various older gen cards. Large performance drops, but at least you could set to low in most games with that early option.

I’ve seen the Battlefield video where it’s mentioned that they are considering a sort of slider approach for the level of Ray Tracing is utilised, if this is the approach then great.

Meh, we just need to see how it turns out!

I’m certainly interested in the implementation of DLSS in games as that seems to bring a great improvement in performance.
 
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