Poll: General election voting round 5 (final one)

[robgmun]

For those that missed it, here's Nigel Farage's programme last night

If you watched last night QT then you owe it to yourself to watch this too for balance if anything

 

[ubersonic]

From 1997 to 2008 UK debt as a % of GDP actually went down.

It looks good when phrased like that. When phrased that Blair/Brown spent all the countries money then raided it's savings then sold off assets before finally breaking out the credit cards, things are a little different.

 

[Scania]

Cameron was strong, but IMO fails to come over with conviction nor much in the way of passion.

Clegg, seems resigned to the fact he can't win and seems to think he will still have enough MP's to form a coalition after the election, I doubt he'll still be an MP, along with most of his current MP's tbh.

Milliband just fails to convince either as a statesman or somebody worthy of high office, labour need somebody with a vision and the ability to get it across (somebody like Tony Blair, but look where that left us!), I think, with a real leader, Labour would and arguably could - despite their past record(s) - be way ahead in this election, instead they have in Ed Milliband the best asset the Conservatives could wish for!

 

[Scania]

How do I get on Question Time?

https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5vyK2GwYrdQGFvCJyKNfZhn/join-the-question-time-audience

 

[ubersonic]

Milliband just fails to convince either as a statesman or somebody worthy of high office, labour need somebody with a vision and the ability to get it across (somebody like Tony Blair, but look where that left us!), I think, with a real leader, Labour would and arguably could - despite their past record(s) - be way ahead in this election, instead they have in Ed Milliband the best asset the Conservatives could wish for!

The thing I find funny is that Cameron actually has one of the best records of any leader in the continent, he should be sleepwalking this election against an opponent like Ed, however he's struggling and not even predicted to win.

If David Miliband was leader of Labour right now we would be predicting a Labour majority and a landslide victory on par with 1997.

 

[McBain]

It looks good when phrased like that. When phrased that Blair/Brown spent all the countries money then raided it's savings then sold off assets before finally breaking out the credit cards, things are a little different.

Exactly.

Buying £200 billion worth of bonds in 2009, which BoE estimates, in the cold light of hindsight, boosted economic output (GDP) by around 1.5%
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/research/Documents/workingpapers/2012/wp443.pdf

Hindsight. I don't call that necessary spending, I call that luck.

 

[platypus]

If you watched last night QT then you owe it to yourself to watch this too for balance if anything

I'll watch the QT when I get chance. I certainly do not owe it to myself to listen to Farage spouting nonsense for half an hour, I have better things to do.

 

[cheesyboy]

It looks good when phrased like that. When phrased that Blair/Brown spent all the countries money then raided it's savings then sold off assets before finally breaking out the credit cards, things are a little different.

Are you a Sun reader, by any chance?

 

[Schlong&Stable]

The problem though, is that it's a MASSIVE decision which if made wrong will have huge negative consequences and repercussions for our children's children. And at this point in time the people of the UK would almost certainly make the wrong decision because they have been brainwashed by the media for years to believe lies about things they don't understand.

I think you overstate the long-term implications of the decision. Britain is one of the largest economies in the world, that won't suddenly change if we left the EU. It might impact our economy in the short term, but membership of the EU is a double-edged sword anyway.

 

[scorza]

For those that missed it, here's Nigel Farage's programme last night

...

If you watched last night QT then you owe it to yourself to watch this too for balance if anything

Just watched this on iplayer funnily enough. What a refreshing change it was to have a respectful audience who asked their questions and then actually *listened* to what Nigel had to say, and to have a host who didn't feel the need to butt in attempting to steal the limelight. I really think that's the first opportunity Nigel has been given my the media companies to get his message across and he didn't dissappoint. What a shame he wasn't allowed to share the stage with the three other mainstream political parties.

 

[cheesyboy]

Hindsight. I don't call that necessary spending, I call that luck.

Call it what you like, it was consistent with relevant economic theory and did exactly what it was intended to do. If only the EU had not been so blind to the issue, preferring to further contract liquidity by imposing further constraints on banks' capital requirements and, until recently realising their mistake and introducing QE, not having the political fortitude to do the same then we might not have seen such a lengthy recession for the Eurozone, and the knock on effect that has on the UK.

 

[scorza]

Google will find you a graph within about 5 seconds.

First hit: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/labour-spending-worked-blair-brown-stealth

Did Labour's social policy work? The answer is a pretty resounding yes, according to the LSE's definitive survey of the Blair-Brown years: "There is clear evidence that public spending worked, contrary to popular belief." Nor did Labour overspend. It inherited "a large deficit and high public sector debt", with spending "at a historic low" – 14th out of 15 in the EU. Labour spending increased considerably, but until the crash was still "unexceptional", either by historic UK standards or international ones. Until 2007 "national debt levels were lower than when Labour took office".

 

[robgmun]

I'll watch the QT when I get chance. I certainly do not owe it to myself to listen to Farage spouting nonsense for half an hour, I have better things to do.

As much as i hate Milliband and Clegg, i watch all opposition leaders, to shelter yourself like that is going to give yourself a myopic world view and is ultimately horribly closed minded. Are you scared that some of the things he might say makes sense and you might agree with? If you say no, how do you know if you don't watch? You can't, pure and simple

 

[alx]

The thing I find funny is that Cameron actually has one of the best records of any leader in the continent, he should be sleepwalking this election against an opponent like Ed, however he's struggling and not even predicted to win.

If David Miliband was leader of Labour right now we would be predicting a Labour majority and a landslide victory on par with 1997.

Guess it's a combination of people starting to vote outside of the traditional parties, voting on ideology/a single party regardless of anything else and the fact people don't like cuts.

To a lot of people his 'record' doesn't matter (righly or wrongly).

 

[McBain]

Call it what you like, it was consistent with relevant economic theory and did exactly what it was intended to do. If only the EU had not been so blind to the issue, preferring to further contract liquidity by imposing further constraints on banks' capital requirements and, until recently realising their mistake and introducing QI, not having the political fortitude to do the same then we might not have seen such a lengthy recession for the Eurozone, and the knock on effect that has on the UK.

As you said, in hindsight. That to me is a gamble, whichever way you spin it.

 

[McBain]

First hit: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/labour-spending-worked-blair-brown-stealth

I guess that depends what you're searching for?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25944653

Graph near the bottom. They seem to have overspent to me, doubling public spending in a year.

 

[Tunney]

First hit: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/02/labour-spending-worked-blair-brown-stealth

Pah, who cares what the London School of Economics have to say on the matter? There's no place on an Internet forum for genuine experts making conclusions base on evidence.

Let's stick to tabloid language about how Labour racked up debts on the country's credit cards.

 

[Adsta]

I found QT fairly interesting to watch.

I thought Ed was doing ok and was almost convincing me to think about labour more. But when he flat out refused to say the previous Labour government didn't overspend/make mistakes and would not accept otherwise he lost all faith. How can he say that they Labour have learned from the mistakes earlier in the QT and will be able to resolve them, then say that the previous Labour government did nothing wrong with the finances. Ed seemed to be doing quite well at promoting Labour up until this point in my view. Why he felt the need to try defend the previous Labour government is beyond me and I think he will lose a lot of credit for it.

David I thought did what he does and delivered a “strong commanding performance” (lol). I thought he done fairly well but I fear the imagine he portraits is what the “average joe” dislike about him. He is a politician and acts in a manner that comes across as calculated but really lacking any compassion imo. But for me I think he would still be a very good PM again and well I agree with the vast majority of Tories policies.

Mr Clegg… I was pleasantly surprised by him. Although he really did nothing to try pull more votes by to have the balls to say “we cannot win” was rather shocking. I thought Clegg was the most genuine and if it wasn’t for the “failed collation” that so many people put on the Lib Dems (mainly Clegg) I think the Lib Dems would have pulled more votes in this year. That one audience member that asked the question to Clegg about if he has another career plan after the General election because their party was “defunct” was frankly appalling. What a stupid question to ask and just shows that some people really have no clue about how the collation worked let alone what influence/power the Lib Dems had.

 

[cheesyboy]

As you said, in hindsight. That to me is a gamble, whichever way you spin it.

I referred to it as hindsight because... it was being analysed in retrospect. Perhaps "hindsight" is not technically the correct word, since the mechanism was understood when the decision was made, and it worked exactly as planned.

Regardless, many at the time agreed it was the correct thing to do, and it has been shown to be the correct thing to do. And it was an example of "Labours spending in 2009, and 2010 that were because 'that's what you're supposed to do' ", as you asked.

Why ask the question if you're going to just ignore the evidence in the answer?

 

[platypus]

As much as i hate Milliband and Clegg, i watch all opposition leaders, to shelter yourself like that is going to give yourself a myopic world view and is ultimately horribly closed minded. Are you scared that some of the things he might say makes sense and you might agree with? If you say no, how do you know if you don't watch? You can't, pure and simple

You forget, I've already voted. I do agree with some of his soundbites and well coached phrases, he's clever at appealing to popular sentiment after all. I've seen and heard enough from Farage for now though.