German Grand Prix 2011, Nürburgring Circuit - Race 10/19
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Soldato
I fear I may be warming to Crazy Dave. 
Maybe I'm not well.
I found qually rather boring tbh, but enjoyed the banter in the commentary box. Shame it was occasionally drowned out by the racket the Renault makes as it splutters round the final hairpin.
Maybe I'm not well.I found qually rather boring tbh, but enjoyed the banter in the commentary box. Shame it was occasionally drowned out by the racket the Renault makes as it splutters round the final hairpin.
This is very unlikely to happen given the US$billions which all the teams, collectively, have spent on aero developments.
To send F1 car aerodynamics back to 1980 levels, will be unacceptable to all the big teams.
Why do people keep saying this, it is totally dumb and unfounded.
Every tine they change something. They have to check out the aero and restart. Just like mclaren has done, just like all. Teams had to. Do at the last big change and just like all the teams will have to do in 2014.
Just like all the teams have wasted millions on engines and now have to redesign them.
Denis, for what ever reason, feels that Hamilton is like a surrogate son and he won't ever allow another driver to "trouble" Hamilton.
Button, isn't as good as Hamilton, but he isn't far off.
You want proof: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/standings/default.stm. Midway through the season, Hamilton is tied on points with Button.
What suits Hamilton is having a chump as a team-mate (Heikki is perfect and as a result, Hamilton was very complimentary of him). This not only takes pressure off of Hamilton, but also makes Hamilton look better than perhaps he really is. It will also force the entire team to focus on Hamilton's side of the garage.
What driver wouldn't like to have a chump as a team-mate, with the entire team focused around him?
Given the above, Denis would almost certainly do his best to get rid of Button and pander to Hamilton's requests...just as he got rid of Alonso in 2007 and also got rid of Prost in 1990, when he realised his love for Senna.
I think Whitmarsh is doing a good job, but perhaps he needs to try and get Newey back at McLaren...if he can do that, there will be no question that he is the best person to lead McLaren's F1 operations.
Qualifying - Webber bests Hamilton to take pole
Mark Webber upstaged his Red Bull team mate at the Nurburgring on Saturday afternoon to take pole position for the German Grand Prix, as Sebastian Vettel failed to qualify for the front row of a starting grid for the first time in 15 races.
German Grand Prix qualifying - top three drivers
Pole-setter Mark Webber, McLaren's Lewis Hamilton and Webber's Red Bull team-mate Sebastian Vettel give their thoughts on an exciting qualifying session for the German Grand Prix.
Hamilton is delighted with his performance in finishing second and World Championship leader Vettel insists he is not disappointed despite missing out on the front-row for the first time in 15 races.
German Grand Prix: Watch Mark Webber's pole lap in full
Watch Mark Webber's pole lap in full from the in-car camera as the Red Bull driver sets the fastest lap in qualifying for the German Grand Prix ahead of Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel.
They certainly don't need to restart.
What they do is look at the data they already have and then use that as a starting point.
With every year, this starting point get closer and closer to the "actual" aero effect which would be seen once the car is designed and out on the track.
If you were to go back to 1980s aero (and I think that that is what you are essentially suggesting they do), you would need to remove a lot of areas of the car which allows for the extra downforce and aero advantages. The cars may even have to run without wings and have big areas of the chassis to be specified by the FIA (with no room to make custom changes).
If this wasn't the case, why do you think all the big teams are objecting to a radical reduction in aero?
They have had to start again many times, it's an unfounded and stupid opinion. They can refine for a few years until a major change.
Like kers. Like in 2014, will need massive battery packs, massive radiators. Ad a very simple narrower front wing. It will be a total redesign.
Just like when they add a massive fuel tank. The car length and shape totally changed, meaning they had to start again.
Just like the engine changes through out the sport, just like the electrical bannings. All need millions spent.
Changing aero, won't affect the knowledge, or the win tunnels or the modelling they have done. It would just be yet again new parts.
Like kers. Like in 2014, will need massive battery packs, massive radiators. Ad a very simple narrower front wing. It will be a total redesign.
Just like when they add a massive fuel tank. The car length and shape totally changed, meaning they had to start again.
Just like the engine changes through out the sport, just like the electrical bannings. All need millions spent.
Changing aero, won't affect the knowledge, or the win tunnels or the modelling they have done. It would just be yet again new parts.
I was thinking exactly the same.
In his head, he probably did reply (with a four letter expletive).
And Horner, in his head, was probably thinking, "Damn you Mark...you qualified ahead of Seb".
You didnt answer my question:
"why do you think all the big teams are objecting to a radical reduction in aero? "
same reason they reject everything, mixture of status quo, cost, safety. Teams want to go as fast as possible and front teams want as few rules as possible, as this allows them to spend money and gain time.
with the massive changes in 2014, aero is going to be have to be totally changed. I can understand ground effect. But normal aero, would cost no more to restrict in 2014 as it would be to design hat they are going to have to do anyway.
Im not suggesting 80s either
More mechanical grip though change in tyre size and rubber compound.
basic front and rear wing, with no winglets or intricate design between axles. The important bit is the balance between mechanical grip and aero. Grippier tyres means you can allow the car to have more aero.
How much do you thing, egine, kers is going to cost.
How do you think becuase of those packages, a totally new aero is going to cost, Pretty much identical to a more restricted aero. Duee= to that 2014 would be an ideal time, as it isnt just an evolution year.
New size and shape of engine, with specified mounting brackets, larger battery and raditor. Meaning body shape changes. Smaller simpler front wing. Which means the air is going to react totally differently over the entire car.
Therefore every panel is going to be different.
They havent lost their models or windtunnels, or knowledge.
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Soldato
Really looking forward to tomorrows race and hope Hamilton can stay in front of Seb
We need seb to be denied a podium, in order to make this year's title race a little more exciting.
It is quite possible that this could be the dip in form we have been waiting for, from Seb. He got battered at Silverstone and was almost beaten by Webber, there.
Now, for the first time this season, he has been denied a front row grid position.
The question is: can Alonso reel off a series of wins? If he can win a few races on the trot, he can finally put some pressure on Vettel and see how Vettel responds to the pressure.
It is quite possible that this could be the dip in form we have been waiting for, from Seb. He got battered at Silverstone and was almost beaten by Webber, there.
Now, for the first time this season, he has been denied a front row grid position.
The question is: can Alonso reel off a series of wins? If he can win a few races on the trot, he can finally put some pressure on Vettel and see how Vettel responds to the pressure.
really looking forward to this one,
I think first is going to be between Hamilton and Alonso seeing as RedBull always seem to lose a a couple of tenths to Ferrari and McLaren in race pace. Which leaves 3rd place which could turn out to be a battle between Vettel/Webber/Massa/Button
I think first is going to be between Hamilton and Alonso seeing as RedBull always seem to lose a a couple of tenths to Ferrari and McLaren in race pace. Which leaves 3rd place which could turn out to be a battle between Vettel/Webber/Massa/Button
Really, to me it looked like the race was going his way until the botched pitstop. Alonso had the raw pace when in the lead but he wasn't all over Vettel was he until he had clean air.
Besides I think drivers get a change in mindset when they have a decent lead in the title, he had no real need to chase alonso down, he still would extend his lead in the title without putting pressure on the car.
I imagine the team told him that as well.
Before Silverstone, I believe it was you (as well as Brundle), who were saying that Vettel/RBR have plenty in reserve. And if pushed in a race, they will up their pace. Well, at Silverstone, once he got in 2nd place, he was unable to reel in Alonso. In fact, it looked as if Alonso was the one who could go quicker but was choosing to just hold the gap. Both drivers were in clean air at this stage, so that argument of being stuck behind another driver doesn't wash.
By Vettel's standards, being beaten by 20s is a "battering".
Nuts gave a comment a few weeks ago. He stated that Vettel was not happy with himself when he finished 2nd in one of the races (it might've been to Button or Hamilton...I can't remember which). This shows that unlike you or me, Vettel is not the sort of person who accepts 2nd place, easily. Furthermore, if he had any extra pace left, he would've gone faster, if only to avoid Webber who was closing him down. I assure you, Vettel went as fast as he could at Silverstone and got beat by Alonso and was almost beaten by his team-mate. We shall never know if Webber would've got passed him, but I definitely saw Webber lift off, just as he was entering the main straight, on Vettel's tail. Whether this was because he just couldn't overtake Vettel or if it was because of team-orders...I'm not sure.
No way, was Vettel "settling" for 2nd place. He was trying as hard as he dared.
Similarly, being off the front row in a GP (in Germany), for the first time in 15 races is not because he is taking it easy or being told by the team to go slow - but because he was simply outperformed by 2 other drivers.
At the start of the season Vettel looked invincible. Currently, this is not the case.
Caporegime
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Theres no reason to burn out his tyres/car and waste fuel chasing down Alonso when after his pit he was so far back, this is what I said earlier, he got stuck behind Hamilton who I'm fairly sure started fuel saving right after his pit. By the time Vettel got back out and could gain on Alonso he was so far back it wasn't worth it. The Red bull just wasn't up to it at that stage and quite usually Red Bull's are in fuel saving mode for the last 1/3rd of a race.
The question is simply what would have happened without bad pitstops, getting stuck behind Hamilton and pitting at the wrong times aswell, who knows.
Thats the thing, someone said it will be interesting as Red bull often don't show the same pace in the race as qualifying, which is true, but that doesn't mean they don't HAVE that pace, just that they don't show it.
They generally blister off into the lead then maintain a decent gap but don't extend it, they clear as day back off, because unlike qualifying, they are bound by fuel/tyres in the race as much as anyone else. Some races go badly, some go well, Vettel has a massive lead, he's not come lower than 2nd yet, currently yes, he does look invincible.
If Vettel finishes all 2nd places from here to the end, and Alonso wins them all Vettel would still roughly speaking be 20points in the lead. So in his current "slump" he's still well on course for the title. However, Alonso is having a good run of races, there will be a time when he doesn't, and then Hamilton will have a good run, then he'll have a bad run, thats sport. Overall Vettel looks untouchable, thats why he has over a 3 victory lead in points.
The question is simply what would have happened without bad pitstops, getting stuck behind Hamilton and pitting at the wrong times aswell, who knows.
Thats the thing, someone said it will be interesting as Red bull often don't show the same pace in the race as qualifying, which is true, but that doesn't mean they don't HAVE that pace, just that they don't show it.
They generally blister off into the lead then maintain a decent gap but don't extend it, they clear as day back off, because unlike qualifying, they are bound by fuel/tyres in the race as much as anyone else. Some races go badly, some go well, Vettel has a massive lead, he's not come lower than 2nd yet, currently yes, he does look invincible.
If Vettel finishes all 2nd places from here to the end, and Alonso wins them all Vettel would still roughly speaking be 20points in the lead. So in his current "slump" he's still well on course for the title. However, Alonso is having a good run of races, there will be a time when he doesn't, and then Hamilton will have a good run, then he'll have a bad run, thats sport. Overall Vettel looks untouchable, thats why he has over a 3 victory lead in points.