German Grand Prix 2012, Hockenheim - Race 10/20

Poor showing lotus. Lotus really dont do well with cold tyres, tho i think RG didnt have a decwnt first lap in Q1 and that was that.

10th and 19th.. Grr

Oh..massa..lol
 
On another note, complete and utter epic fail by the FIA in the GP3 race. Didn't postpone the start as the rain clouds came in, so everyone was forced to start on slicks. Started behind the SC in pouring rain, everyone pitted and put on wets, then after that on lap 2 they red flagged it. Then waited for aaaaaaaaaaaaaages to get restarted, and processioned around behind the SC for lap after lap after lap. I'm currently at 11 laps to go and still they are going around behind the SC with a dry line and zero spray...and the SC is due to go in, with rain scheduled in 2 minutes time.....

Charlie you complete idiot!

I watched that, complete muppets!
 
Alonso really is on another level this year so far, simply wonderful to watch and so glad he is in the Ferrari :) Still should be a very hard race to call, the Red Bull has not looked all that good until the rain, and McLaren and Lotus looked pretty quick in the dry, should be a pretty good one I think :)
 
Basically, what we are seeing is
Best car (RBR) + 2nd best driver (Vettel)
VS
2nd Best car (Ferrari) + Best driver (Alonso).

I think its going to be close and could quite possibly go down to the last race of the season.

With regards to Hamilton - its going to be difficult for him to compete. He isn't as good as Vettel or Alonso, which means that McLaren NEED to give him the best car on the grid, for him to match or beat Vettel and Alonso's point scoring rate. And right now, McLaren appear to have the 3rd best car (behind RBR and Ferrari), which leads me to believe that as the season progresses, Hamilton is likely to lose ground to the leaders.

The only thing I can see from this year is, when Vettel didn't have a top two car, he can't win, when Alonso doesn't have a top two car, he can't win(weird weather and fluking onto the right strategy aside... for him, Vettel and Hamilton/Button).

The simple fact is that you can't win a title and you won't win many races without one of the two best cars on the grid, Hamilton has been further ahead of his car than Vettel EASILY in the past 3 years, compared to Alonso frequently as well.

The ONLY way to compare drivers is two guys in the same car, Vettel for me is better than Webber, consistently, Hamilton better than Button and Alonso better than Massa. You can GUESS who is the best of the three drivers, but they way you put it that Alonso and vettel are definitely better and Hamilton can't win without having the best car while suggesting the other two can, is laughable.

Hamilton had by FAR the third best car at Valencia, and but for his team screwing up his pitstops he'd likely have been second when Vettel went off(and without a safetycar, a ruddy MILE behind) and could likely have saved tyres by holding back Alonso(like Webber at Monaco) there was overtaking at Valencia but the vast majority of it was when one car had thrashed tyres. Either way Alonso only won because Vettel's car blew, nothing less, and Vettel was way ahead because his car was massively stronger than anyone else.

You don't win without a little luck or without having one of the very best cars on the grid.

I don't think Hamilton will win anything at mclaren because it won't be consistently the best or second best car throughout a season, the team doesn't seem capable of it. I'm 98% sure ALonso and Vettel couldn't have won a single title at Mclaren in the past few years either.


Alonso really is on another level this year so far, simply wonderful to watch and so glad he is in the Ferrari :) Still should be a very hard race to call, the Red Bull has not looked all that good until the rain, and McLaren and Lotus looked pretty quick in the dry, should be a pretty good one I think :)

Dry pace is ruddy hard to judge, Hamilton looked good in Q1 but if the car is really on it the top drivers rarely both going for top times, they might have been capable of going a second faster than Hamilton, who himself might have been on the limit or just getting a time to get into Q2.

Lotus looked poor, not sure where you're getting that idea from, Grosjean went with the hard tyre and by the skin of his teeth got into Q2, Kimi went fast, but on the soft tyre, on the hard tyre he was also way way behind.
 
Sooo ..Missus has just said that it's highlights only on BBC 1 tomorrow at 17:00 ?

Well that totally sux. I have to drive to Taunton tomorrow @ 17:00 (I'm a night driver)

:-(
 
Lotus looked poor, not sure where you're getting that idea from, Grosjean went with the hard tyre and by the skin of his teeth got into Q2, Kimi went fast, but on the soft tyre, on the hard tyre he was also way way behind.

Kimi was on the medium tyre when he set his time in Q1....and also looked pretty handy in practice 3.
 
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Red bull have been referred to the stewards for running a dodgy engine map which may give them an aero advantage - uh oh

Wonder how they're going to worm their way out of this one. I can see them only being allowed to race under protest
 
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iPlayer? It'll be up there for the next week.

One problem with this is that because the BBC are so awesome at spoiling the result for you, they will have a picture of the winner as the video thumbnail and it will say something like
"Alonso claims pole, click here to watch".
Which is now pointless because you now know the result. :mad:

So he'll end up needing to watch a 90min race knowing who won already.
 
Here's why RBR have been referred to the stewards.

622167178.jpg


There have been reports of RBR off throttle blowing in the paddock since Canada/Valencia.

Here's a short clip from Valencia, not conclusive though.

 
You can GUESS who is the best of the three drivers, but they way you put it that Alonso and vettel are definitely better and Hamilton can't win without having the best car while suggesting the other two can, is laughable.

Laughable? Alonso did win a race when his car was qualifying in 9th/10th, earlier this season. He was also scoring decent points during this time. This enabled him to keep in the title hunt, when his car was the 4th-5th fastest.

At the start of the season, we saw the McLaren, without doubt, had the best car. I think this form lasted about 3 races, after that, other teams caught up. During this time, Hamilton did not win. From what I remember in the first race, compared to Vettel (who was driving a slower car), Hamilton was not as fast during the race.

The difference is that when Hamilton has the best car...he may win...if he is really lucky. When Vettel or Alonso have the best car, they have a higher probability of winning the race.

I realise that this is a British forum so many Brits don't like to hear anything bad about a Brit, but the fact remains Alonso is ahead of Hamilton, in a Ferrari (which if averaged over the first 8 races), was on average slower than the McLaren. Lest we forget that in the first few races of the season, the Ferrari could barely make Q3.

Pretty much every commentator I have heard has stated their opinion that Alonso is the best driver in F1. Coulthard. Brundle. Murray Walker. Andrew Benson. In fact, when listening to commentary, on the subject of the best driver in F1, I've not heard any other name (recently), other than Alonso.

Why do I rate Vettel so highly - because when he has the best car, he nails the race almost everytime. He is dependable and almost guaranteed to deliver. Do I need to remind you of last year? The same cannot be said about Hamilton (first 3 races of 2012 season).

Hamilton did have the best car earlier this season and we saw luke warm performances - not great...not bad....just slightly above average. Vettel and Alonso would've probably won the first 3 races in that car.

You don't win without a little luck or without having one of the very best cars on the grid.

Agreed.

I'm 98% sure ALonso and Vettel couldn't have won a single title at Mclaren in the past few years either.

In 2010, McLaren had a decent car. I think up to the middle of the season, Hamilton was in the running. He then faded (the car was pretty quick...just not as fast as the RBR). Had Vettel been in the McLaren (with a lesser driver in the RBR), I believe Vettel would've done a better job.

Lotus looked poor, not sure where you're getting that idea from, ...

Hamilton thrives in an environment where he is No.1 and the darling of the team. This was the case when Heikki was at McLaren and even when Alonso was out of favour in 2007. Alonso (Ferrari/Renault), MSc (Bennetton/Ferrari) and Vettel (RBR) also need a similar level of cuddling, to get the best out of them. Once Lotus have a focal point for their development I think they have a good chance of making a car, to suit Hamilton (only). Without a promise of No.1 status, a move to Lotus won't work and Hamilton may as well stay at McLaren. No.1 status would be VERY important if he moved to Lotus. And I just want to point out, the Lotus car, this year, is actually a very good car. Had Vettel or Alonso been there, they would've won at least 1 race this year.
 
One problem with this is that because the BBC are so awesome at spoiling the result for you, they will have a picture of the winner as the video thumbnail and it will say something like
"Alonso claims pole, click here to watch".
Which is now pointless because you now know the result. :mad:

So he'll end up needing to watch a 90min race knowing who won already.

LOL Yes.
Even I've given up on watching races on iPlayer, unless I know the result before hand. Its better to wait for the highlights show OR just accept that watching the race on iPlayer will mean knowing the result before watching the race.
 
One problem with this is that because the BBC are so awesome at spoiling the result for you, they will have a picture of the winner as the video thumbnail and it will say something like
"Alonso claims pole, click here to watch".
Which is now pointless because you now know the result. :mad:

So he'll end up needing to watch a 90min race knowing who won already.

Just make sure you go directly to the iPlayer site from Google & you shouldn't have the result ruined :confused:

It is only if you go to the main BBC site first you'll see it.
 
5.5 Engine torque demand :
5.5.1 The only means by which the driver may control the engine torque is via a single chassis mounted foot (accelerator) pedal.
5.5.2 Designs which allow specific points along the accelerator pedal travel range to be identified by the driver or assist him to hold a position are not permitted.
5.5.3 The maximum accelerator pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or greater than the maximum engine torque at the measured engine speed.
The minimum accelerator pedal travel position must correspond to an engine torque demand equal to or lower than 0Nm.
5.5.4 The accelerator pedal shaping map in the ECU may only be linked to the type of the tyres fitted to the car : one map for use with dry‐weather tyres and one map for use with intermediate or wet‐weather tyres.
5.5.5 At any given engine speed the driver torque demand map must be monotonically increasing
for an increase in accelerator pedal position.
5.5.6 At any given accelerator pedal position and above 5,000rpm, the driver torque demand map must not have a gradient of less than – (minus) 0.030Nm / rpm.

Interesting! I wonder what the outcome will be... let's wait and see. Hopefully Ted Kravitz will have some news on this at the top of the show later.
 
Laughable? Alonso did win a race when his car was qualifying in 9th/10th, earlier this season. He was also scoring decent points during this time. This enabled him to keep in the title hunt, when his car was the 4th-5th fastest.

At the start of the season, we saw the McLaren, without doubt, had the best car. I think this form lasted about 3 races, after that, other teams caught up. During this time, Hamilton did not win. From what I remember in the first race, compared to Vettel (who was driving a slower car), Hamilton was not as fast during the race.

The difference is that when Hamilton has the best car...he may win...if he is really lucky. When Vettel or Alonso have the best car, they have a higher probability of winning the race.

I realise that this is a British forum so many Brits don't like to hear anything bad about a Brit, but the fact remains Alonso is ahead of Hamilton, in a Ferrari (which if averaged over the first 8 races), was on average slower than the McLaren. Lest we forget that in the first few races of the season, the Ferrari could barely make Q3.

Pretty much every commentator I have heard has stated their opinion that Alonso is the best driver in F1. Coulthard. Brundle. Murray Walker. Andrew Benson. In fact, when listening to commentary, on the subject of the best driver in F1, I've not heard any other name (recently), other than Alonso.

Why do I rate Vettel so highly - because when he has the best car, he nails the race almost everytime. He is dependable and almost guaranteed to deliver. Do I need to remind you of last year? The same cannot be said about Hamilton (first 3 races of 2012 season).

Hamilton did have the best car earlier this season and we saw luke warm performances - not great...not bad....just slightly above average. Vettel and Alonso would've probably won the first 3 races in that car.

I have to agree with you for the most part. Even the current drivers all think that Alonso is the best on the gird. I'd think that they are more informed than us.

On a side note Marion Jolles was voted hottest woman in the paddock.
 
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