German Grand Prix 2012, Hockenheim - Race 10/20

[ShakenNstirred]

Only if the FIA told them to give it back. If RBR asked the FIA for clarity, and the FIA didn't give them an answer before the end of the race, that isn't RBRs fault.

Yes a drive through should be given if a driver is requested to give a place back and doesn't. But if Vettel was never asked to give the place back, they cant give him a drive through for not doing something he was never instructed to do.

But if Vettel was told to give the place back, or the FIA told RBR and they never told him, then a drive through is correct. But I've not seen any evidence that this was the case.

in the last 5 laps of the race the FIA dont give out drive thoughs etc as by the time they have reviewed the vids and got the team to tell the driver the race would be over, thats why they add it to the time after the race

 

[Mr Men]

Are you admitting Lewis was faster?

He had DRS and fresh rubber so yes he was able to use DRS and brake later than Seb into turn 6 and dived down the inside, he then went nowhere but sat in between Alonso and Seb. He was not all over Alonso or even attempting to pass Alonso.

 

[smr]

Really enjoyed the race. It was unfortunate for Lewis as I'd have liked to have seen him battling it out at the front but oh well, that's racing.

Thoroughly enjoyed Jenson's overtakes and the middle part of the race where Lewis was trying to unlap himself. Vettel's frustrated gesticulating is always welcome

I'm glad he incurred the 20 second penalty. Saw a shot of the RBR mechanics in the garage just after they'd found out they had escaped the FIA's wrath (for that time being anyway) over the alluded to engine mapping shenanigans.

They basically all high fived each other in a really cocky manner which both I and the missus remarked upon as to how cocky they are. Starting to respect Ferrari a lot more than RBR these days. As much as it pains me to say it, Ferrari are just keeping their heads down, no whinging or anything and they are delivering the results. Alonso is in the form of his life.

Great to see Jenson on top of things again, great time to do it as well just before the season break. Hopefully he can carry this form on for the rest of the season and get a win next weekend in Hungary.

That would do his mindset a world of good.

 

[Skeeter]

in the last 5 laps of the race the FIA dont give out drive thoughs etc as by the time they have reviewed the vids and got the team to tell the driver the race would be over, thats why they add it to the time after the race

But that offence didn't warrant a drive through. It warranted Seb giving the place back.

If RBR/McLaren sought clarity from the FIA and RBR were told to give the place back and didn't a drive through is the correct punishment.

However, if they sought clarity and didn't get an answer in time, then the FIA should have imposed a penalty that was in tune with giving the place back, so something like a 5 second penalty to drop him back to 3rd.

Theres no evidence to suggest the FIA gave RBR or McLaren an answer until after the race, which is a very poor show. When ever a car leaves the track, all available footage of it, plus all the data logs from the cars GPS systems is sent automatically to the FIA. Plus, before the race had finished even the comentators had come to the conclusion it was an illegal pass.

All we have so far is that the FIA failed to give an answer, but then punished with a drive through, which seems harsh to me, and caused by the FIA being too slow.

 

[ZG002]

Wouldn't surprise me if the FIA had a bitter taste in the mouth over this illegal mapping of the ECU so dealt a harsh punishment, They just seem to be a little like that.

 

[ShakenNstirred]

But that offence didn't warrant a drive through. It warranted Seb giving the place back.

If RBR/McLaren sought clarity from the FIA and RBR were told to give the place back and didn't a drive through is the correct punishment.

However, if they sought clarity and didn't get an answer in time, then the FIA should have imposed a penalty that was in tune with giving the place back, so something like a 5 second penalty to drop him back to 3rd.

Theres no evidence to suggest the FIA gave RBR or McLaren an answer until after the race, which is a very poor show. When ever a car leaves the track, all available footage of it, plus all the data logs from the cars GPS systems is sent automatically to the FIA. Plus, before the race had finished even the comentators had come to the conclusion it was an illegal pass.

All we have so far is that the FIA failed to give an answer, but then punished with a drive through, which seems harsh to me, and caused by the FIA being too slow.

yeah but he didnt give it back hence the 20s after the race
he and the team know the rules

 

[Mr Men]

Wouldn't surprise me if the FIA had a bitter taste in the mouth over this illegal mapping of the ECU so dealt a harsh punishment, They just seem to be a little like that.

His penalty was in line with every other penalty for cutting the track to overtake, there was no FIA failing or harshness. They do not have any rules to just swap positions or a 5 second penalty. They could have given him a grid drop for the next race but that would not be appropriate really.

 

[Mr Men]

yeah but he didnt give it back hence the 20s after the race
he and the team know the rules

Indeed, and Red Bull did not think he had done anything wrong, so not sure why Skeeter thinks Red Bull were speaking to the FIA asking if was ok.

 

[Skeeter]

yeah but he didnt give it back hence the 20s after the race
he and the team know the rules

They are also fully within their rights to seek clarification from the FIA before giving it back. We see it happen all the time. The FIA usually come back with a decision fairly quickly.

It's wasn't as clear cut as when someone just straight lines a chicane and gives the place back. They asked the FIA if they had to give it back, they didn't get an answer, they then got penalised as if they had been given an answer but ignored it.

 

[Mr Men]

They are also fully within their rights to seek clarification from the FIA before giving it back. We see it happen all the time. The FIA usually come back with a decision fairly quickly.

When have you seen this happen all the time? Teams might ask Charlie what he thinks and go from that, Charlie does not make the decisions.

You have no idea if Red Bull asked anything to Charlie, from their reaction after the race I would say clearly they never.

 

[El_Watcher]

then the FIA should have imposed a penalty that was in tune with giving the place back,

When have the FIA and stewards ever imposed anything in line with anything else?

I think they just have a hat with various penalties in (including "do nothing"), and just pluck whatever comes out

I think if the FIA were to make a consistent decision between two similar cases, the world would implode

 

[pingwing]

Just watched the highlights show, there needs to be more Lee Mckenzie! Fun little race, still think Sauber should be looking for some sort of podium soon.

 

[Mr Men]

FIA played it perfectly by the rules....

16.3 The stewards may impose any one of the penalties below on any driver involved in an Incident :
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping.
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
If either of the two penalties above are imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).
c) A time penalty.
d) A reprimand.
If any of the four penalties above are imposed they shall not be subject to appeal.
e) A drop of any number of grid positions at the driver's next Event.
f) Exclusion from the results.
g) Suspension from the driver's next Event.

 

[Skeeter]

When have the FIA and stewards ever imposed anything in line with anything else?

I think they just have a hat with various penalties in (including "do nothing"), and just pluck whatever comes out

I think if the FIA were to make a consistent decision between two similar cases, the world would implode

Yep. Vettel should have been penalised, but as with most things the FIA Penalty Roulette wheel spat up a random out of proportion penalty.

I suppose that's only fair though, makes up for the breaking the rules but not breaking the rules because of the way the rules are written not being able to firmly say they broke the rules even after agreeing they broke the rules farse that was the exhaust mapping ruling...

 

[Mr Men]

Yep. Vettel should have been penalised, but as with most things the FIA Penalty Roulette wheel spat up a random out of proportion penalty.

Maybe read the rules?

 

[Irish_Tom]

Anyone know what time the technical working group meeting is?

Hoping they clarify the RBR mapping issue.

 

[413x]

im neither a lewis or seb fan

Lh was perfectly entitled to overtake, sportsmanship doesnt come jn to it. If it helped button so be it , rbr or anyone else would do exactly that. Its a team thing
If seb was faster lewis would have nsver had the chance. O
Its also usual in racing for a faster trailing car to overtake..oh wait..thats the WHOLE point pf racing

 

[MooMoo444]

Can't say the penalty wasn't deserved, but if he had just backed out he probably would have had him into the next corner lol.

 

[arknor]

vettel doesnt seem to do backing out.

the once likeable guy doesnt seem such a great guy when hes not dominating

 

[Skeeter]

the once likeable guy doesnt seem such a great guy when hes not dominating

I dunno, he was a likeable guy in 2009 and 2010, and he didn't dominate in either of those seasons.

I think its more a sort of 'toys out of pram' attitude when he feels hard done by. Alonso has been prone to some of these moments too in the past, and Hamilton went down the sarcastic comments route, so Vettel isn't alone in it, he's just shown quite a few moments recently.