Germany Christmas Market Attack (Magdeburg)

Bear · Monday at 08:50

Nasher said:
The UN make it hard to actually do anything about the ones coming in illegaly. We can't just throw them out.

They are piling up in migrant camps because there is nothing else we can do with them.

When we were in the EU, we could have sent a lot of them back to France

Bear · Monday at 08:53

Demon said:
Our legal net migration is close to 1 million... there is no argument for that level other than if we had had years of no immigration and needed a gross boost to population

Yes and its an arguement Im not even making, why you keep insisting on repeating it to me is beyond me

Nasher · Monday at 08:53

Bear said:
When we were in the EU, we could have sent a lot of them back to France

Yea right. France would never allow it and the EU would side with them.

Being outside of the EU, we could send them back to France/EU as well. They would have less power to stop us as an external country.

We need to tighten things up and just start saying no tbh. Like Eastern European nations are.

Bear · Monday at 09:02

Nasher said:
Yea right. France would never allow it and the EU would side with them.

Being outside of the EU, we could send them back to France/EU as well. They would have less power to stop us as an external country.

We need to tighten things up and just start saying no tbh. Like Eastern European nations are.

You are really showing your ignorance there. When in the EU we could move illegal migrants back to France under the Dublin convention. France could then under the rules of the EU push them back along the chain etc. till they were back to the port of entry and sent back home.

Out of the EU we are no longer party to that agreement and we are prohibited to do so, else the Tories would have done it without coming up with the ridiculous idea of shipping them off to Rwanda. Sums you up altogether though, absoutely clueless about the subject matter yet freely talk nonsense about it.

Tykey · Monday at 09:08

mid_gen said:
Presumably you were out there waving placards supporting the medical unions and fighting for better pay for NHS staff?

No, why would I be?

Demon · Monday at 09:08

Bear said:
Yes and its an arguement Im not even making, why you keep insisting on repeating it to me is beyond me

Yeah, good point, I got caught up in the subsequent replies, where you keep inferring we have reasonable processes in place for legal migration, I'm saying we don't, it's not onerous if we have 1 million net migration.. that's a fallacy as far as I am concerned and a huge part of a systemic problem with immigration, legal and illegal.

SupraWez · Monday at 09:09

Bear said:
You are really showing your ignorance there. When in the EU we could move illegal migrants back to France under the Dublin convention. France could then under the rules of the EU push them back along the chain etc. till they were back to the port of entry and sent back home.

Out of the EU we are no longer party to that agreement and we are prohibited to do so, else the Tories would have done it without coming up with the ridiculous idea of shipping them off to Rwanda. Sums you up altogether though, absoutely clueless about the subject matter yet freely talk nonsense about it.

So France had to allow them to risk their lives crossing the channel, to make it here, so we could pass them back for France to then return them to port of entry?

Its no wonder France had an issue with camps forming, the more humane thing to do would be turn them around before they risked their lives getting to the UK.

mid_gen · Monday at 09:12

Tykey said:
No, why would I be?

I was interested to see if you were one of those hypocrites that says we should get rid of immigrants and just train and pay more people already here to staff the NHS.... then when it comes to actually having to pay for it you demonise the 'greedy' doctors, balk at ever paying more tax, and vote for parties that keep trying to cut funding to healthcare.

Tykey · Monday at 09:14

mid_gen said:
I was interested to see if you were one of those hypocrites that says we should get rid of immigrants and just train and pay more people already here to staff the NHS.... then when it comes to actually having to pay for it you demonise the 'greedy' doctors, balk at ever paying more tax, and vote for parties that keep trying to cut funding to healthcare.

I am fully in support of increased pay and better working conditions for those in the NHS, especially the junior doctors and lower level staff like carers, porters, cleaners, etc. I'm not going to join in their demonstrations though.

Edit: I worked in the NHS for about a year in IT, there are managers of managers of managers, it needs reform, I still think it's a fantastic institution though and deserves lots of love, I don't want to derail this thread though so won't waffle on about it anymore.

Bear · Monday at 09:15

SupraWez said:
So France had to allow them to risk their lives crossing the channel, to make it here, so we could pass them back for France to then return them to port of entry?

Its no wonder France had an issue with camps forming, the more humane thing to do would be turn them around before they risked their lives getting to the UK.

Migrants are free to claim asylum in any country they choose, so if they dont choose to claim asylum in France then they are transiting to the UK. Remember boat crossings werent a thing until we were out of the EU, they were coming over on the lorries previously.

When the migrants claims were rejected, the UK were free to send them back to France and France were free to move them to Italy or where ever they transited from back to the port of entry, where they should have been processed or sent back

VincentHanna · Monday at 09:45

Demon said:
It isn’t in place is it, we don’t need nearly 1 million net immigration, it’s unsustainable and irresponsible, and people like students able to bring over entire families, including parents? And the increase in benefits and social housing say there is enough abuse of the system…

No they cannot, not as of the start of this year.

This is having an adverse impact on university's though: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdd4p62nyg8o

Bear · Monday at 10:12

Demon said:
Yeah, good point, I got caught up in the subsequent replies, where you keep inferring we have reasonable processes in place for legal migration, I'm saying we don't, it's not onerous if we have 1 million net migration.. that's a fallacy as far as I am concerned and a huge part of a systemic problem with immigration, legal and illegal.

Fair enough and I can see where you are coming from the face of it (1m net). Im only coming from the view of how hard it was for one of my work colleagues to remain, where he was sent home and he was working and contributing (mechanical CAD) so it wasnt even a low skilled job, they just rejected his visa renewal. It was a fair time ago though, so things could have changed a lot in that time to be fair

VincentHanna · Monday at 10:15

SupraWez said:
So France had to allow them to risk their lives crossing the channel, to make it here, so we could pass them back for France to then return them to port of entry?

Its no wonder France had an issue with camps forming, the more humane thing to do would be turn them around before they risked their lives getting to the UK.

Small boats weren't even a thing when we were in the EU.

Most people were coming over on lorries.

ci_newman · Monday at 10:19

Locking this thread now. It has devolved into the usual immigration discussion and we have a thread for that in Speakers Corner.

Echoing my comments earlier in the thread, my sympathies for anyone affected.