Germany Christmas Market Attack (Magdeburg)

[413x]

Weren’t they leading in the German polls just before this.

I don't follow super closely but I believe so. I mean I think the whole of Europe has moved much more right in last few years.

 

[Resident]

So an Ex-Muslim targets a christmas market, a symbol of Christianity, who would no doubt be filled with mainly non Muslims?

If this guy was truly ex-muslim then odd he still acted like any fundamentalist Islamic...

very odd indeed..

Like that ex-Muslim, Ezedi, allegedly converted to Christianity but was buried in an Islamic funeral.....

 

[MartinPrince]

Cant be too critic if he is undertaking terrorist attacks in the name of Saudi nationals and their treatment overseas.

If home was so much of a problem too, why not do something there?

i understand you not accepting that this guy was also a critic of the Saudis but he simply was. It is one of several apparent contradictions about him; he was a psychiatrist yet does something as mad and deranged as this etc.

"Home" was obviously a problem for him (an atheist) which is why he left and became a "refugee" in the first place.

This to be honest.

If Saudi was giving a "warning" about someone who was critical of them, but not through the official, internationally recognised channels I'd imagine a lot of countries would take it with a pinch of salt, given the Saudi's have a habit of kidnapping and imprisoning people who criticise them, and have killed people whose only threat to them was that they were publicly critical.

If someone has been in a country legally, and working in a highly monitored and regulated profession and you've got some vague warning from a government you know will go as far as to kill and dismember it's critics in foreign counties, I suspect many intelligence agencies (going back decades) will take it with a lot of salt, especially if their own observations are not showing anything untoward or out of the ordinary or that points to the person meeting the normal indicators of a threat (and for years it's been pointed out that intelligence agencies have been treating the threat from "right wing" groups/followers far less seriously than they'd treat the threat from say practicing muslims under similar circumstances).

It's like Iran warning that someone who is critical of the Mullah's is a threat to a country and can they please have them deported back.

Precisely. If the warning had come from somewhere like MI6 then it might have carried a little more weight but the Saudis recent track record probably worked against them unfortunately.

 

[chrismscotland]

Weren’t they leading in the German polls just before this.

No, they aren't - the Traditional Centre Right party (CDU) - Merkels former party is leading by a fair margin in the latest polls. A 12 point lead over the Far Right (AfD)

 

[Begbie]

This to be honest.

If Saudi was giving a "warning" about someone who was critical of them, but not through the official, internationally recognised channels I'd imagine a lot of countries would take it with a pinch of salt, given the Saudi's have a habit of kidnapping and imprisoning people who criticise them, and have killed people whose only threat to them was that they were publicly critical.

If someone has been in a country legally, and working in a highly monitored and regulated profession and you've got some vague warning from a government you know will go as far as to kill and dismember it's critics in foreign counties, I suspect many intelligence agencies (going back decades) will take it with a lot of salt, especially if their own observations are not showing anything untoward or out of the ordinary or that points to the person meeting the normal indicators of a threat (and for years it's been pointed out that intelligence agencies have been treating the threat from "right wing" groups/followers far less seriously than they'd treat the threat from say practicing muslims under similar circumstances).

It's like Iran warning that someone who is critical of the Mullah's is a threat to a country and can they please have them deported back.

Youd think between that and his tweets calling for death to the Germans would be enough for the police to at least investigate.

Damn if you criticise rapists or murderers you get arrested in Germany.

 

[Bear]

The 100 or so bulldozed to death in Germany a few years ago, the 3 young girls in Southport, the people killed by a bomb in Manchester at the Aria Grande concert, the people who died in the London knife attack a few years ago, now the 5 dead and 100's injured in Germany after being bulldozed (again),... I could go on with many more. Without immigration these things wouldn't have happened because these people wouldn't have been in the UK or Germany to do these things.

Whilst I have some sympathy with this sort of thinking, ie. dont let the nutters in, where does it end? There will be plenty of those immigrants that just want to get on with their lives being productive members of society as well as a share of nutters for sure. Do we throw them all out as you dont want to take the risk? Sounds like a very slippery slope

 

[Demon]

Whilst I have some sympathy with this sort of thinking, ie. dont let the nutters in, where does it end? There will be plenty of those immigrants that just want to get on with their lives being productive members of society as well as a share of nutters for sure. Do we throw them all out as you dont want to take the risk? Sounds like a very slippery slope

It’s not about no immigration, It starts with having a sustainable cap on immigration, and god forbid, some kind of ‘standards’ that immigrants need to fulfill, whether that be skills, qualifications etc..ironically it wouldn’t have stopped this incident but it would reduce the opportunities.. you can’t simply tell who is/isn’t a terrorist by looking at them, but with sensible numbers/controls I’m happy to take the risk.

When you make it a free for all for no-skill workers who bring their extended families with them, just of faith that on balance hopefully the majority will be ‘good’ then you simply get people abusing the system and gov’ ts having to manipulate things to quell the obvious kickback.

 

[Bear]

It’s not about no immigration, It starts with having a sustainable cap on immigration, and god forbid, some kind of ‘standards’ that immigrants need to fulfill, whether that be skills, qualifications etc..

When you make it a free for all for no-skill workers who bring their extended families with them, just of faith that on balance hopefully the majority will be ‘good’ then you simply get people abusing the system and gov’ ts having to manipulate things to quell the obvious kickback.

But that system is already in place, Ive known people that were productive members of society being ejected from the country (South Africans). I used to work with them, so they had well paying jobs. It isnt as easy as some make out.

Perhaps like everything, its the chancers that know how to game the system that are the problem. That said, Tykey wasnt talking about sustainable caps or standards but not having "at risk" types of people allowed in, in the first place

 

[Demon]

But that system is already in place, Ive known people that were productive members of society being ejected from the country (South Africans). I used to work with them, so they had well paying jobs. It isnt as easy as some make out.

Perhaps like everything, its the chancers that know how to game the system that are the problem

It isn’t in place is it, we don’t need nearly 1 million net immigration, it’s unsustainable and irresponsible, and people like students able to bring over entire families, including parents? And the increase in benefits and social housing say there is enough abuse of the system…

I employ a good number of highly skilled immigrants from all over the world, I’m a fan of immigration in general if we do it on the basis of what we can support and ensuring they are highly skilled and useful members of society.

Opening borders as we essentially have makes some sjw types feel warm and fuzzy inside, campaigning on human rights grounds to keep in some very unsuitable undesirables, just makes it all a mockery and some spectacularly destructive self harming system.

 

[StriderX]

It isn’t in place is it, we don’t need nearly 1 million net immigration, it’s unsustainable and irresponsible, and people like students able to bring over entire families, including parents? And the increase in benefits and social housing say there is enough abuse of the system…

I employ a good number of highly skilled immigrants from all over the world, I’m a fan of immigration in general if we do it on the basis of what we can support and ensuring they are highly skilled and useful members of society.

Opening borders as we essentially have makes some sjw types feel warm and fuzzy inside, campaigning on human rights grounds to keep in some very unsuitable undesirables, just makes it all a mockery and some spectacularly destructive self harming system.

SJW?

As if it's not the turbo capitalists that are the actual source of this as a means to both reduce workers rights, suppress wage and create strife to deflect from their theft. Not to say that there aren't plenty of socialists who think the idea of borders are part of some western imperialism, but they're hardly in power are they?

 

[Tykey]

But that system is already in place, Ive known people that were productive members of society being ejected from the country (South Africans). I used to work with them, so they had well paying jobs. It isnt as easy as some make out.

Perhaps like everything, its the chancers that know how to game the system that are the problem. That said, Tykey wasnt talking about sustainable caps or standards but not having "at risk" types of people allowed in, in the first place

To be honest my post just made a factual statement, I never suggested anything about immigration controls.

My view on immigration is that it needs to be drastically reduced. A strict assessment system where immigrants can only come here to fill skilled jobs and only if it's been proven the job couldn't be filled by someone already here. Immediate deportation for people arriving on boats who lets face it are mostly young single men who are economic migrants. Our hospitals, dentists, housing, schools, etc, are at breaking point.

I've no issue with immigrants who come here to fill skilled positions and who integrate into a British way of life.

 

[Bear]

It isn’t in place is it, we don’t need nearly 1 million net immigration, it’s unsustainable and irresponsible, and people like students able to bring over entire families, including parents? And the increase in benefits and social housing say there is enough abuse of the system…

I employ a good number if highly skilled immigrants from all over the world, I’m a fan of immigration in general if we do it on the basis of what we can support and ensuring they are highly skilled and useful members of society.

I cant tell if we are talking about different things but for genuine people that want to legitimately come over to the UK to live and work permanently its not as easy as just showing up on our shores. There is a system in place which is quite onerous.

That there are people that have come over on boats to claim asylum is not what I am talking about and not what I was replying to when I commented on Tykey's post. I also wasnt making any comment about the numbers coming over or what is sustainable or not. You are free to re-read my reply to Tykey's post again.

 

[Freakbro]

It’s not about no immigration

It certainly sounds like that was what Tykey was saying and others agreed with.

, It starts with having a sustainable cap on immigration,

That's a different issue

and god forbid, some kind of ‘standards’ that immigrants need to fulfill, whether that be skills, qualifications etc..
ironically it wouldn’t have stopped this incident

Correct, so its not really relevant then is it on stopping this type of incident.

What is ironic is we inflicted economic self harm on ourselves so we could take back control of our borders and since then we have iimplemented a visa system....and seen immigration rocket. That was worth making us all poorer for.

but it would reduce the opportunities.. you can’t simply tell who is/isn’t a terrorist by looking at them, but with sensible numbers/controls I’m happy to take the risk.

Great. This doesn't address 2nd, 3rd generation home grown terrorists who get radicalised online though. Back to Tykeys stop all immigrants and nothing will happen pov again. Which, tbh, is a pretty childlike viewpoint of the world.

When you make it a free for all for no-skill workers who bring their extended families with them, just of faith that on balance hopefully the majority will be ‘good’ then you simply get people abusing the system and gov’ ts having to manipulate things to quell the obvious kickback.

Like you say though, there's no guarantees, just minimising risk and having systems in place to prevent "bad things" happening. Which isn't enough for the Tykeys of the world when things do happen and they want to stop all immigrants.

 

[Bear]

To be honest my post just made a factual statement, I never suggested anything about immigration controls.

My view on immigration is that it needs to be drastically reduced. A strict assessment system where immigrants can only come here to fill skilled jobs and only if it's been proven the job couldn't be filled by someone already here. Immediate deportation for people arriving on boats who lets face it are mostly young single men who are economic migrants. Our hospitals, dentists, housing, schools, etc, are at breaking point.

I've no issue with immigrants who come here to fill skilled positions and who integrate into a British way of life.

I know you made a factual statement, and I said I had some sympathy for that line of thought. I agree that you never directly said anything about immigration controls but it was implied. You said, "without immigration these things wouldnt have happened" the logical step would be not to have let the "at risk groups" to be allowed in, in the first place to prevent the awful things that have happened.

The nutbag in Germany was a doctor, he would have made your assessment to fill a skilled job, where would that have got you?

 

[Freakbro]

Opening borders as we essentially have makes some sjw types feel warm and fuzzy inside,

The Tories have overseen record levels of immigration, whilst having full control, and spouting anti-immigration rhetoric.

Blaming our situation on "sjw" types is just

 

[Nasher]

The UN make it hard to actually do anything about the ones coming in illegaly. We can't just throw them out.

They are piling up in migrant camps because there is nothing else we can do with them.

 

[Tykey]

I know you made a factual statement, and I said I had some sympathy for that line of thought. I agree that you never directly said anything about immigration controls but it was implied. You said, "without immigration these things wouldnt have happened" the logical step would be not to have let the "at risk groups" to be allowed in, in the first place to prevent the awful things that have happened.

The nutbag in Germany was a doctor, he would have made your assessment to fill a skilled job, where would that have got you?

They'll always be outliers but deaths due to immigrants who were subject to much tighter immigration controls would be greatly reduced. And the German authorities had received warnings about him afaik. A blanket ban on immigration although stopping the attacks I mentioned is not the answer in my opinion. There are some fantastic immigrants here who provide valuable skills and who live their lives with British values.

 

[mid_gen]

Yeh our state would be forced to train up and employee on decent wages the people who are already here.

Presumably you were out there waving placards supporting the medical unions and fighting for better pay for NHS staff?

 

[Demon]

The Tories have overseen record levels of immigration, whilst having full control, and spouting anti-immigration rhetoric.

Blaming our situation on "sjw" types is just

On forums it's sjw types, for govt it's a mix of GDP manipulation and some human rights issues (civil service)

 

[Demon]

I cant tell if we are talking about different things but for genuine people that want to legitimately come over to the UK to live and work permanently its not as easy as just showing up on our shores. There is a system in place which is quite onerous.

That there are people that have come over on boats to claim asylum is not what I am talking about and not what I was replying to when I commented on Tykey's post. I also wasnt making any comment about the numbers coming over or what is sustainable or not. You are free to re-read my reply to Tykey's post again.

Our legal net migration is close to 1 million... there is no argument for that level other than if we had had years of no immigration and needed a gross boost to population