Getting insurance for my 18 year old lad, he's just passed his driving test.

Friend of mine had a black box. She lived on a road parallel to a dual carriageway. Now her road was a 30 and the dual was NSL.

Now for the sake of easy explanation. She worked north of her house but to get there she had to drive south down her residential street and then join the DC going north, back past her house.

She had her policy cancelled as it showed twice that she'd done 70 down her residential street. Insurance company were adamant that their box was 100% accurate "to within one metre".

She went to the ombudsmen and they looked at the case and found that the accuracy of the device they were using wasn't actually fit for purpose and wildly inaccurate.
 
Friend of mine had a black box. She lived on a road parallel to a dual carriageway. Now her road was a 30 and the dual was NSL.

Now for the sake of easy explanation. She worked north of her house but to get there she had to drive south down her residential street and then join the DC going north, back past her house.

She had her policy cancelled as it showed twice that she'd done 70 down her residential street. Insurance company were adamant that their box was 100% accurate "to within one metre".

She went to the ombudsmen and they looked at the case and found that the accuracy of the device they were using wasn't actually fit for purpose and wildly inaccurate.
Yup, so many similar stories online. You just have to Google. That put me right off.
 
I'd also avoid black box if you can but not for an extra £1900. I would just insure it all in your name and add him as a driver. I've done the same and he genuinely is NOT the main driver. Rarely drives it currently as at uni, but... Even if he was...so what? I know it's fronting. Don't care. How on earth are they going to prove who the "main" driver is. Follow him around filming?
 
What are these black boxes? My nippers one is a small one that plugs into the ODB2 port. I don't think it has GPS in it. I've no idea how it even communicates as it's not paired to his phone. I guess it has a sim in it.
When you come to make a claim, they refer to their black box data and refuse to pay out because you went 33 in a 30 7 weeks ago, voiding their terms of engagement.
 
I'd also avoid black box if you can but not for an extra £1900. I would just insure it all in your name and add him as a driver. I've done the same and he genuinely is NOT the main driver. Rarely drives it currently as at uni, but... Even if he was...so what? I know it's fronting. Don't care. How on earth are they going to prove who the "main" driver is. Follow him around filming?
I have often wondered this
I've heard stories about insurance companies deciding on who the main driver is by what music was in the car (back when tapes/cds were used), but that seems like a myth to me.
 
I'd also avoid black box if you can but not for an extra £1900. I would just insure it all in your name and add him as a driver. I've done the same and he genuinely is NOT the main driver. Rarely drives it currently as at uni, but... Even if he was...so what? I know it's fronting. Don't care. How on earth are they going to prove who the "main" driver is. Follow him around filming?
Fronting just isn't worth it. Don't follow this advice.
 
I'd also avoid black box if you can but not for an extra £1900. I would just insure it all in your name and add him as a driver. I've done the same and he genuinely is NOT the main driver. Rarely drives it currently as at uni, but... Even if he was...so what? I know it's fronting. Don't care. How on earth are they going to prove who the "main" driver is. Follow him around filming?

Will he start building no claims? I.e will it be cheaper now, but not in the future. Negating any potential savings over time.
 
So to update. In the end got cover for £2900 a year. Still a lot but at least I avoided the blackbox, due to some horror stories I came across online. Now I opted to pay monthly, as the Apr wasn't too much, for what we got . Now out of interest, just ran a few searches and his insurance is now showing as £1800 for the year! Is is possible to then switch insurance company considering we've only ensured him for the last 4 months. I assume it's not possible, but just thought I would ask.
Hi guys, so just to ask again please if I may. Can I switch insurance companies 4 months in please?
 
Hi guys, so just to ask again please if I may. Can I switch insurance companies 4 months in please?
Yes you can cancel and just start a new policy. He'll just have to wait until the end of this new policy to earn 1 years no claims bonus.

There will probably be an admin fee to cancel so be aware of this.
 
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I'd also avoid black box if you can but not for an extra £1900. I would just insure it all in your name and add him as a driver. I've done the same and he genuinely is NOT the main driver. Rarely drives it currently as at uni, but... Even if he was...so what? I know it's fronting. Don't care. How on earth are they going to prove who the "main" driver is. Follow him around filming?

They can and have done in the past. A friend of mine works for Aviva in their fraud department. They do have the authority to order surveillance. Mostly they'll survey the home address and see who's getting in the car.

If you're caught then both parties, the fronter and the frontee get prosecuted for insurance fraud which could mean prison at worst case. Both will end up with IN10 on your licences and at least 6 points (so if he's under 2yrs then bye bye licence)

If you think getting insured is hard now, wait till you try with a insurance fraud conviction...

Fronting just isn't worth it. Don't follow this advice.

This ^

Will he start building no claims? I.e will it be cheaper now, but not in the future. Negating any potential savings over time.

Some insurers will let you gain "in-house" NCB as a named driver but it's only valid if you stay with that company. Generally named drivers do not gain NCB that is transferrable.
 
100hp car at 17 :eek:

When i was 17 i had an Austin mini 1000cc 39hp and think my best mate mk1 fiesta 957cc had around 40hp
To think even my first hot hatch when i was about 22 was only 85hp (Ford Fiesta XR2 mk2)

At 17 I had 103bhp. 2nd car (because the 1st lasted 4hrs) and paid a whopping £900 full comp

Rover Metro GTi MPi.

Thing is, 100bhp is nothing these days. Back in my teens having over 100bhp & a GTi badge leant me some credibility amongst friends. If you had 150+ you were a god.

Nowadays standard family cars are 150+. My wife's 7 seater is 178bhp.
 
My first car was an EG Civic, 1 of 16 in the country in this colour/model combo and 1 of 9 in manual, it was only a 1.5lsi non vtec with 92bhp but weighed IIRC 925kg, so pretty light, would absolutely smash my mates mk4 Fiesta Zetec S 115bhp... I paid £2336 to insure it monthly, IIRC £550 upfront and something mad like £160+ a month for 11 months!

I wrote it off idiots slamming their brakes on in very bad weather down a blind hill excessively when it wasn't needed in a 50 so I had nowhere to go, told the insurance company but didn't claim against myself, this was about 6 months in IIRC...
Then I got a EK civic, finished the year on the first policy, obviously didn't get a NCB, BUT my insurance on the faster 115bhp EK civic was now £749? Then blew the gearbox on that 7 months later, switched over to a 137bhp 2L Accord Sport Vtec IIRC about £850, that then allowed me to get my first of 5 E36 BMW's for £1100ish IIRC?

So TLDR, IMHO it WAS worth paying stupid money for the first civic despite the crash as regardless it has always allowed me to insure faster more expensive cars afterwards, even with a crash inbetween upgrading, I think it just shows you're serious and probably respect the car more/are whiling to put serious money into both the car/insurance/tax? VS driving a shed worth nothing?

These were always in my name with no-one else on the policy, and always fully comp, 3rd party fire and theft is often ironically more expensive, I always make sure I state the proper value of the car that decent examples on similiar mileage sell for on ebay/auto trader/forums - and not the bs price valuation companies/trade-in's provide.

When I first insured a seriously modified beamer of mine, they literally said to me on the phone if you'd said it was worth 9k vs 6.5k your insurance would have been cheaper as we don't tend to insure stuff of that value... Anyway next year it had even more parts to fit and declare so was worth a lot more, my insurance went down loads - as I did quotes with 2 different values so it wasn't just the extra years NCB!

Funniest thing is, on the same car I fitted a way bigger engine/gearbox/diff/big brakes/fully adjustable coilover suspension/poly bushes/recaro bucket seats/interior swap/posh ££££ vintage italian wheels etc etc for it, made the car literally over double the power and pretty much only the shell was left of the original car, made it a litre/2cyls bigger engine with a fully rebuilt plated LSD diff with custom ratios etc, the insurance went down to half the price of standard with the original engine!

Oh and all my insurance coverage has always had the ability to drive anyone else's cars too, I think this is always worth it, especially as a petrol head enthusiast who has many mates who restore/modify their cars and want to share them with each other and see what can be improved etc.
I also like the idea that if I had to say drive someone to hospital in their car and I wasn't near mine, I can. People often don't think about things like that, did that for my parents for example and a mate.

But yeah the moral of the story is, buy it yourself/insure it yourself, build up your own NCB, and buy something you actually want and then you can pretty much insure anything reasonably quickly as it proves you're very serious about your cars/trusted/experienced. Silly fast/expensive stuff now seems to cost more in tax than it does to insure.
This def wouldn't be a thing if I'd driven a shed/snail worth nothing. So it's still very worth it if you have something in mind in the future you really want to own regardless of if it's fast or not, just makes it nice and cheap to insure then.
 
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When I turned 17 I got a Honda CBR400R :D
Fun times.
One of my mates had a GPZ1100r back in 1986 when he was 16
At 16 I had a DR400 then an X7 250 and then a Honda MTX200 all back in 1986

Back then over here you could have unlimited cc motorbikes and no road tested needed at 16 year old
 
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They can and have done in the past. A friend of mine works for Aviva in their fraud department. They do have the authority to order surveillance. Mostly they'll survey the home address and see who's getting in the car.

If you're caught then both parties, the fronter and the frontee get prosecuted for insurance fraud which could mean prison at worst case. Both will end up with IN10 on your licences and at least 6 points (so if he's under 2yrs then bye bye licence)

If you think getting insured is hard now, wait till you try with a insurance fraud conviction...



This ^



Some insurers will let you gain "in-house" NCB as a named driver but it's only valid if you stay with that company. Generally named drivers do not gain NCB that is transferrable.
Yup and it's even harder with canceled insurance on the list of offences!
 
My daughter will be turning 17 next September. Already trawling the internet looking at what is insurable and what not. I think I am set on a 1.7 Ford Puma. £1700 for the year with both parents on the policy. Her as main driver.

Will start looking for a project early next year. Can easily find one for 500-900 that requires some work. Maybe another £500-700 on top to get it good.
 
They can and have done in the past. A friend of mine works for Aviva in their fraud department. They do have the authority to order surveillance. Mostly they'll survey the home address and see who's getting in the car.

If you're caught then both parties, the fronter and the frontee get prosecuted for insurance fraud which could mean prison at worst case. Both will end up with IN10 on your licences and at least 6 points (so if he's under 2yrs then bye bye licence)

If you think getting insured is hard now, wait till you try with a insurance fraud conviction...



This ^



Some insurers will let you gain "in-house" NCB as a named driver but it's only valid if you stay with that company. Generally named drivers do not gain NCB that is transferrable.

I can't imagine something like that would stand up in court easily. What if that month when they started monitoring, you were bed bound for a month and circumstances changed? What if one driver drives the car every day for 5 months and the other 7 months. What if one driver goes out at night every day for a 3 hour drive then becoming the "main" driver. It would have to be monitored over a long period of time and if you had a claim of any sort, you would then be able to change any behaviour to suit, up until the end of that policy period if you thought you were at risk. Yes insurance fraud is bad and it is serious, but I just can't see if being any easy thing for them to prove. I'm not condoning it, just saying.
 
I can't imagine something like that would stand up in court easily. What if that month when they started monitoring, you were bed bound for a month and circumstances changed? What if one driver drives the car every day for 5 months and the other 7 months. What if one driver goes out at night every day for a 3 hour drive then becoming the "main" driver. It would have to be monitored over a long period of time and if you had a claim of any sort, you would then be able to change any behaviour to suit, up until the end of that policy period if you thought you were at risk. Yes insurance fraud is bad and it is serious, but I just can't see if being any easy thing for them to prove. I'm not condoning it, just saying.

Most cases of fronting are detected when a claim is made but surveillance is a tool they will use if they suspect it.
 
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