Getting Married in June - Pre Nups / Advice

Uther · 11 Apr 2017 at 13:27

Chris Wilson said:
Problem is wives aren't so hot on the honouring and obeying bit these days <LOL>

Bit of FFM never hurt anyone.

Two kids and 15 years together, she can already take you to the cleaners if she wanted to. If she reads this thread she probably should.

DampCat · 11 Apr 2017 at 14:21

Lack of trust has nothing to do with it. Super irksome when people say that.

The world changes without you. People change if you want them to or not. Life will take you places you never expected. You're an idiot if you don't protect things worth protecting because "it makes you look like you don't trust me".

Chris Wilson · 11 Apr 2017 at 14:30

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!

If it flies, floats or *****, rent it.

DampCat · 11 Apr 2017 at 14:31

ubersonic said:
Prenups aren't legally binding nor enforceable in the UK, to stop people like you doing what you're trying to do. A divorce court will ensure she gets what she deserves.

Not entirely true. They are legally binding, and signing a prenuptial agreement is a key piece of evidence in court against someone looking to claim. Prenups can be overturned by a court if they're deemed unfair but that has to be proved by the person who signed it.

It doesn't make you invincible but it helps.

Though with 2 kids i doubt it's going to weigh too heavily in the decisions should things go that far.

It's really more for protecting inheritences, business interests etc. Not for splitting a couple unfairly.

garsands · 11 Apr 2017 at 14:39

sbk1972 said:
Interesting subject. Ive been with my partner for 15 years, we now have two kids and plan to marry in June. I am a marriage-phobic but the kids are at the age when they realise their parents arent married.

Who should I see / speak to understand my situation if when married we part say 2/5 years later ? Solicitor ? From my understanding Im pretty phucked already as my Mrs doesnt work and have been looking after the kids for the last 8 years. She gave up her career. So, although my house is mortgage free, its in my name, as are the bills etc, and she lives using a credit card that I pay for.

Be nice to get a good understand of my position pre / post marriage. I suppose you keep reading that 50% of marriages break up so you worry more and more.

SBK

Freefaller · 11 Apr 2017 at 14:40

ubersonic said:
Prenups aren't legally binding nor enforceable in the UK, to stop people like you doing what you're trying to do. A divorce court will ensure she gets what she deserves.

Indeed that's something people forget - the courts will decide who the "weak" partner is and protect them.

Whilst I'm sure there are a lot of scare stories, from my own personal experience (via friends/family) - mutual break ups often are well handled and fair. Acrimonious break ups, where the father has cheated, often is in favour of the mother (quite rightly) - similarly if the mother turns out to be less than honest I've seen it go in favour of the father.

If you have children a house and so on, you're already invested in one another as a family unit. Irrespective of a prenup, if your assets will help the upkeep of your children, they can and will ensure that that is the case.

Personally I abhor prenups and everything they stand for. We are a family unit, and I don't care if I contribute financially more or whatever - I want to be a family, not an individual.

Cleisthenes · 11 Apr 2017 at 14:55

From what garsands just quoted, it sounds like in the last 8 years she's been a stay at home mum whilst you've been out at work. If you've been together that long it's staggering that you feel like what you earn isn't hers in the slightest. I think I'd be furious if I were in her shoes.

Ayahuasca · 11 Apr 2017 at 17:19

Freefaller said:
Personally I abhor prenups and everything they stand for. We are a family unit, and I don't care if I contribute financially more or whatever - I want to be a family, not an individual.

But if you end up an individual through no fault of your own do you want to struggle financially for years to come?

Also on the cheating thing, it doesn't matter if the mother was unfaithful, the judge won't care if she was taking D from here to China if children are involved.

dowie · 11 Apr 2017 at 17:25

ubersonic said:
Prenups aren't legally binding nor enforceable in the UK, to stop people like you doing what you're trying to do. A divorce court will ensure she gets what she deserves.

that isn't true - there was this case for example:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2010/oct/20/prenuptial-agreement-enforced-uk-law

guardian said:
Prenuptial agreements have been recognised as enforceable under British divorce law for the first time, in a supreme court ruling today.

Judges found in favour of the 40-year-old German heiress Katrin Radmacher, who had sought to protect her £106m fortune in the eventuality of a marriage breakdown.

Radmacher and her French ex-husband, Nicolas Granatino, 38, a former investment banker, had signed a prenuptial agreement before their wedding in London in 1998. The agreement stipulated that neither party would benefit financially if the marriage ended.

By ruling that such contracts are legally binding, the supreme court has altered the landscape of divorce settlements. It is likely to be a severe blow to the UK's reputation as the "divorce capital of Europe".

the below post seems to be the correct view here:

DampCat said:
Not entirely true. They are legally binding, and signing a prenuptial agreement is a key piece of evidence in court against someone looking to claim. Prenups can be overturned by a court if they're deemed unfair but that has to be proved by the person who signed it.

It doesn't make you invincible but it helps.

Though with 2 kids i doubt it's going to weigh too heavily in the decisions should things go that far.

It's really more for protecting inheritences, business interests etc. Not for splitting a couple unfairly.

FishFluff · 11 Apr 2017 at 17:26

Ayahuasca said:
But if you end up an individual through no fault of your own do you want to struggle financially for years to come?

Also on the cheating thing, it doesn't matter if the mother was unfaithful, the judge won't care if she was taking D from here to China if children are involved.

So essentially the judge will do what's best for the children? Good. That's how it should work.

dowie · 11 Apr 2017 at 17:28

Freefaller said:
Personally I abhor prenups and everything they stand for. We are a family unit, and I don't care if I contribute financially more or whatever - I want to be a family, not an individual.

I think that is missing the point somewhat, they're there for the case where the marriage breaks down so emphatically nothing to do with you being a 'family unit' but only the unfortunate event where you aren't. They don't have to be unfair but can simply be used to protect things like inheritance or business interests etc.. that existed before the marriage and that the other partner has had nothing to do with. They can't really be used in the UK to completely screw another partner unfairly, kick them out on the streets. If they're drafted unfairly then they're not enforceable.

Malevolence · 11 Apr 2017 at 17:30

sbk1972 said:
or how I can put measures in to reducing the financial raping I will no doubt get.

Have a read of this thread, there are plenty of useful tips contained within.

Ayahuasca · 11 Apr 2017 at 17:33

FishFluff said:
So essentially the judge will do what's best for the children? Good. That's how it should work.

The children/mother rarely require the amount of money you regularly see in court settlements to have the same standard of living, in the UK it's actually not too bad but in the US you see ridiculous rulings like the amount being based on the highest earning point of the father's career.

darkgen · 11 Apr 2017 at 17:54

OcUK divorced OP. Sad times.

Freefaller · 11 Apr 2017 at 19:40

dowie said:
I think that is missing the point somewhat, they're there for the case where the marriage breaks down so emphatically nothing to do with you being a 'family unit' but only the unfortunate event where you aren't. They don't have to be unfair but can simply be used to protect things like inheritance or business interests etc.. that existed before the marriage and that the other partner has had nothing to do with. They can't really be used in the UK to completely screw another partner unfairly, kick them out on the streets. If they're drafted unfairly then they're not enforceable.

If God forbid that happens as long as my children are looked after that's all I care about. If I have to share everything or give some stuff up. I don't care really.

Angilion · 11 Apr 2017 at 19:41

Vonhelmet said:
Flagrant sexism. Awesome.

It was obviously a reply to the posts about looking at wedding vows rather than pre-nup agreements.

The traditional wedding vows have the wife swear to honour and obey the husband and the husband swear to worship the wife. Anyone who claims to believe that wedding vows are the only thing that matters should be demanding obedience to those vows.

Freefaller · 11 Apr 2017 at 19:41

Ayahuasca said:
But if you end up an individual through no fault of your own do you want to struggle financially for years to come?

Also on the cheating thing, it doesn't matter if the mother was unfaithful, the judge won't care if she was taking D from here to China if children are involved.

If you can prove as a father that you will provide better quality of life and support for your children then it's not a given that the mother will win sole custody.

dowie · 11 Apr 2017 at 19:43

Freefaller said:
If God forbid that happens as long as my children are looked after that's all I care about. If I have to share everything or give some stuff up. I don't care really.

but presumably, like most people, you're not in the situation where one would be warranted - if you were then perhaps you'd view it differently... I mean say you were a farmer and might be forced to sell off your farm for example

Spook187 · 11 Apr 2017 at 19:44

So many skinflints threads of late, surprised at how many manage to even get a partner in the first place with so little trust.

DampCat · 11 Apr 2017 at 19:48

Freefaller said:
If God forbid that happens as long as my children are looked after that's all I care about. If I have to share everything or give some stuff up. I don't care really.

The UK courts wouldn't let a family be ruined prenuptial or otherwise. In OPs case they'd likely overturn the prenup as it would be unfair to the kids.

They remain legally binding though, contrary to what people here have been saying. They're just not The Word of God, as they might be in the US etc.

I think for the average person they're kind of unnecessary, but there are definitely scenarios where they make sense.