Looks like the backlash has started: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6258544.stm.
Glasgow Airport-under attack
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afraser2k said:
Therein lies the problem. They see themselves as part of their own special community, not as part of the mainstream society. And of course we see them the same. Both sides recognise that the other is totally different and incompatible.
dirtydog said:
I am but you asked about realism, and i put it in terms that I thought might appeal to the agitators.
99% of me believes multiculturalism is possible but 1% of me knows that humans are fools and it will end in blood and bombs.
Im just wondering if it would be easier to just "get on with it" and start WW3 and see which God or Prophet(p.b.o.h
) comes out trumps.Im just bored of it all really, (i think i said that before) Im bored of the way the world is run and raped and people are starving in one country and yet we spend Millions on bloody slimfast shakes.
Im just sick of the bickering......
lol rant mode off!
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ooh, I woke up this morning to find the street next to mine cordoned off and houses been searched.
And that's the trouble. As part of me agrees with you. Communities should all integrate.dirtydog said:
But the other part of me says that Britain stands for personal freedom. You can do whatever you want while here, provided you obey the laws. If you want to form an isolated community, you're entitled to do so.
Obviously, I'm not defending the criminals, nor the people that shelter them.
But why shouldn't a law-abiding muslim wear what they want, do what they want and live where they want?
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Dolph said:
Very good post. I think you have hit the nail on the head that there is no easy solution. Start "Sending them back" and government starts looking incredibly authoritarian and would probably be counter productive to the aims of reducing terrorism in the UK.
I only way I can see any progress made is if we start using the armed forces for what they are designed for - Protecting our boarders, rather than waging aggressive wars in parts of the world we have no mandate dictate to.
I've said before what needs to be done. Stop immigration of alien races and cultures straight away and leave the EU so we can control our borders. Until we do that, anything else is a waste of time.Efour2 said:
eg. regardless of how well WE control our borders, any EU citizen has a right to live in Britain. So these people will target those countries with the most lax border controls like Poland and gain Polish citizenship. Once they have that, they'll be on their way here. All roads lead to Britain
dirtydog said:
So you feel its quite right that innocent law abiding muslims who have absolutely nothing to do with this attack should be villified or attacked right??.
Why shouldnt muslims feel angry for being tarred with the same brush as the terrorists??...is it because they are muslims??.
These aliens cannot integrate while retaining their own culture - it is an oxymoron.Mr.Clark said:
Our mass immigration and multiculturalism policies are GENOCIDE of the British people, make no mistake about that. We are being outbred by them, and whites are leaving in record numbers. We are the only country in history whose people have willingly submitted to this genocide without a fight. In fact our traitorous leaders are fully complicit in this treason.
They shouldn't be attacked. They might or might not be due some criticism however, depending on exactly what their views are.Spawn said:
Because I believe they should carry some of the blame for incurring the wrath of the natives when they have made insufficient efforts to integrate into our society.
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dirtydog said:
Perhaps they need special treatment in this case. If innocent people of a certain race/religion are being specifically targetted by thugs it is appropriate that they are given extra protection by the police.
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Dolph said:
In an ambiguous situation where there is a real or imagined serious threat perhaps it serves on some level to polarise into groups JUST IN CASE. That way, any potential threat will become more likely hence more easily dealt with. At the expense of all other productivity.
Emotive arguments are the BEST and EASIEST way to polarise and excite people becasue emotion traditionally needs no justification. Logic does.
It's hard. I am torn between the two - the best way I have found of thinking about it is that Islamism is rotten but Muslims are just people. Ergo, I am trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
But how CAN you separate a people from an ideology? Particularly when 'moderate Muslims' are probably torn between the two - and when our society (including myself) considers ambivalence unacceptable when it comes to this.
Also, I think we have an unwillingness to accept what we have done in starting this fire - not so much in foreign policy, but the wanton unguided acceptance of multiculturalism that has allowed Islamism to setup an infrastructure in the UK.
I don't have a blanket dislike for either multiculturalism, immigration or multiracialism - I think that any of these en mass are bad, and I think their existence needs to be guided.
Which is the dilemma. And would that approach work, clamping down on freedoms?
If we were going to do that, I wouldn't give a flying fig about the response it would provoke from the Muslim community becasue it is almost like a "if this doesnt work, nothing will" approach.
Another approach would be to try and manipulate the Muslim community attitude towards extremists by systematically punishing Islamism, although how effective this would be would depend on whether Muslims identified as British or Muslim first and foremost - becasue it would then depend on who they blame.
What I AM certain of, is that I do not wish my children to have to deal with this issue - because it is the type that can fester and I do not believe that the sins of the father should become the sins of the son.
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dirtydog said:
Of course, but when one group is under a specific threat, the police need to concentrate their resources in protecting that group to achieve a fair level of protection.
Just reading this link posted earlier on page 15: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6258544.stm
taking this quote from Mr Sarwar:
Well to me thats a fair view for peopple to have. Ok not every man woman and child living as a muslim agree's with terrorism, however it comes across to the average person in the street that this is the case. The reason for this is because the so called 'Leaders' of Islam do nothing but glorify it.
Ive been on the fence regarding this kind of question for a while because i can see both sides of it, but lately ive become more convicned that the longer the muslim community tells people its not their fault/problem the longer this problem is going to carry on.
As long people use this religion as a gateway to legalise terrorism in their eyes, then the religion and the people that run/practice that religion should be answerable for it to some degree.
taking this quote from Mr Sarwar:
Well to me thats a fair view for peopple to have. Ok not every man woman and child living as a muslim agree's with terrorism, however it comes across to the average person in the street that this is the case. The reason for this is because the so called 'Leaders' of Islam do nothing but glorify it.
Ive been on the fence regarding this kind of question for a while because i can see both sides of it, but lately ive become more convicned that the longer the muslim community tells people its not their fault/problem the longer this problem is going to carry on.
As long people use this religion as a gateway to legalise terrorism in their eyes, then the religion and the people that run/practice that religion should be answerable for it to some degree.
dirtydog said:
Forget the ones who havent integrated as i dont have much time for them myself. But what of the ones who have made every effort to integrate into British life but still carry on as muslims??. Should they be singled out for attacks and vile abuse??.
I take great offence to anyone who says i should take part blame for this terrorist culture we live in. I have absolutely no intention of apologising for what the terrorists do or have done, i may condemn them as i see fit but i sure as hell wont apologise on their behalf to the great british public...they may share the same faith as i do but even i can plainly see that they arent islamic in any way, shape or form. But lets not go into that right now, this isnt a thread on what islam/muslims are all about.
See, it's language like that that exacerbates things.dirtydog said:
It's not genocide. Not even close.
Yes, they should probably integrate more, but other than speaking English, I don't see what more you expect them to do.
It should be said that in any circumstances, laws/rules override any "religious reasons" for doing things. If shops, banks or courts say "remove hats, helmets or veils" then you have to do so.
Maybe they should try socialising more - go out to pubs and clubs, maybe. Drink coke or juice. If you act "British", you'll get more acceptance.
Sitting down and whining that you're treated differently when you don't try and fit in is just counter-productive.
If you honestly can't live without existing in your own little community, why not move somewhere that you can live?
But when you start throwing ideas around that they're committing genocide, you sound like the Daily Mail, and you're really not helping anyone. Some people will agree with you, some will go further and use violence on your "aliens". Others will assume that you're just a nutter that splashes rhetoric around.