Good AIO or Air?

[zx128k]

Ryzen does have overclocking headroom but its not that easy to get the most out of it. The more you overclock the harder it becomes to cool the CPU. At some point you can't cool the beast. Also you get a lot of the performance you could get by overclocking just getting the CPU under 30c and keeping it there. That is going to require a chiller, take the HC-250A - HC-500A http://www.hailea.com/e-hailea/product1/HC-500A.htm https://www.bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/cooling/hailea-hc-500a-water-chiller-review/1/ or something like that. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/hailea-ultra-titan-hc-250-waterchiller.229468/ Then you can go for 4.5GHz overclocking as well if you are lucky with the silicon lottery.

Then there is an expensive custom loop. This 'could' get you 4.4GHz and keep temps under control. Even so you will hit 85c or so in prime 95 testing the CPU. This is not a good temp under water. Also requires higher vcore. The higher the vcore the harder the CPU is to keep cool and the harder it is to hit a higher clock. You 100% want a vcore that is safe. I am lucky in that I could be stable at 1.337volts vcore at 4.4GHz. This could be safe but I don't know yet.

From the graph I have seen, getting the temps under 60c in games is the way to go. https://www.docdroid.net/cg6DAXn/chart1.pdf Maybe a good air cooler or AIO could do this and not cost the earth. Temps will always be higher in Cinebench etc but you can't control that without spending lots of money.

 

[doyll]

To me there is a difference between AIO (All in One) and CLC (Closed Loop Cooler).

CLCs are a sub-group of AIO. All CLCs are AIO but not all AIO are CLC

AIO have threaded fittings, copper radiators and fill port. They are better quality than CLCs, but custom loops are even better quality than AIOs.

All liquid cooling requires more maintenance than air cooling .. and all liquid cooling costs much more with any loop less than about £300 likely not lasting more than 4-6 years (and that is with annual flush and refill w/ new coolant) .. pumps are the most common failure point.

I have be quiet! Silent Loop 280 that I've been using for years now with no problems, (test sample for reviewing so got it about same time they started selling). I add coolant at 6-7months, then flush and change coolant every 12-14 months and it's going strong, but I know of one that had pump failure that owner had radiator in top of case and topped up coolant every 6 months that is just a little newer than mine is. It may have been under warranty (3 years) but he just changed back to air cooling. He is sending it to me to check out what actually failed so I will be posting up what I find.

 

[Alsone]

https://tpucdn.com/review/cooler-master-masterliquid-ml360r-rgb/images/relative_perf.png

Sorry but who? Question, who's testing would I trust a link to a website I've never heard of that rates an AIO at 100%, (a very high rating for an AIO), or tests done by Linus @ Linus Tech Tips, and associates such as Jay @ Jayz 2 Cents, Steve @ Gamers Nexus and DeBauer to mention some of the people on Youtube who often work with Linus on tests and do similar testing. All of those people are respected names and well known leading industry figures / overclockers.

A little difficult to clarify as lots of variables , but most warranties are 2 or 3 years and then if you buy the aio with a refill port, then you are looking at the cost of the coolant of say £5-£8 or just distilled water to top up £1-£3.

Say the warranty was out, then If you had a cheap thin walled 120mm rad aio and the pump failed it probably wouldn't be worth upgrading or saving. But If you had a 120 thick wall/240/360 rad then you are 1/3 the way there to going custom, a good cheap reservoir pump would be £30-40.
You might need new tubing £5-£20, or reuse the tubing, you could gut the internals out of the aio dead pump and resue the block or just put on a new cpu block (price).

edit, but as some have already said, Ryzen 3*** doesn't have any overclock headroom, so really the best solution in my opinion would be a half decent air cooler.

The warranties usually out after 2 years max then assuming it's not a closed system in which case it could be new AIO time, you have the hassle of having to disassemble a cooler full of water, re-assemble and circulate cleaning fluid it through it, dissemble and empty it, re-assemble it and flush it, disassemble it empty it before re-filling it, and maybe if that doesn't clean it, physically having to disassemble the water pathways and hand clean them to remove deposits, then refill it, all without spilling water everywhere inside the pc (probably easier here as you could remove it being an AIO when compared to a fixed custom solution). However, you're doing all that for an AIO that's going to potentially cool worse than the leading air coolers? Why would you even bother.

I've never had an air cooler fail yet despite having some for more than 10 years and apart from a blow with some air and a quick vacuum every 3 or 4 years when temps start to rise due to the fins becoming clogged with dust, I've never had to maintain an air cooler. Blowing / sucking the dust out is a 2 minute job once every 3-4 years (more often if you're conscientious) with no mess and no risk to the pc. So why the hell would you opt for an AIO over an air cooler except for aesthetics at the penalty of lower life, more risk of failure and more maintenance and maintenance that could potentially blow out other parts of your pc in the case of a leak? If you're a serious overclocker and custom water cooling then yes there are reasons for taking these risks and because custom solutions offer better cooling for extreme users and the risks begin to justify the rewards. However, for a regular pc user, better cooling for less money, less hassle and maintenance and less risk has to be better than buying a potentially lower performing AIO just so you can say you have water cooling. In game or when rendering, no-ones going to care what AIO you have, or even be able to see it, but you're frame rates will care what cooling you have.

 

[zx128k]

Sorry but who? Question, who's testing would I trust a link to a website I've never heard of that rates an AIO at 100%, (a very high rating for an AIO), or tests done by Linus @ Linus Tech Tips, and associates such as Jay @ Jayz 2 Cents, Steve @ Gamers Nexus and DeBauer to mention some of the people on Youtube who often work with Linus on tests and do similar testing. All of those people are respected names and well known leading industry figures / overclockers.



The warranties usually out after 2 years max then assuming it's not a closed system in which case it could be new AIO time, you have the hassle of having to disassemble a cooler full of water, re-assemble and circulate cleaning fluid it through it, dissemble and empty it, re-assemble it and flush it, disassemble it empty it before re-filling it, and maybe if that doesn't clean it, physically having to disassemble the water pathways and hand clean them to remove deposits, then refill it, all without spilling water everywhere inside the pc (probably easier here as you could remove it being an AIO when compared to a fixed custom solution). However, you're doing all that for an AIO that's going to potentially cool worse than the leading air coolers? Why would you even bother.

I've never had an air cooler fail yet despite having some for more than 10 years and apart from a blow with some air and a quick vacuum every 3 or 4 years when temps start to rise due to the fins becoming clogged with dust, I've never had to maintain an air cooler. Blowing / sucking the dust out is a 2 minute job once every 3-4 years (more often if you're conscientious) with no mess and no risk to the pc. So why the hell would you opt for an AIO over an air cooler except for aesthetics at the penalty of lower life, more risk of failure and more maintenance and maintenance that could potentially blow out other parts of your pc in the case of a leak? If you're a serious overclocker and custom water cooling then yes there are reasons for taking these risks and because custom solutions offer better cooling for extreme users and the risks begin to justify the rewards. However, for a regular pc user, better cooling for less money, less hassle and maintenance and less risk has to be better than buying a potentially lower performing AIO just so you can say you have water cooling. In game or when rendering, no-ones going to care what AIO you have, or even be able to see it, but you're frame rates will care what cooling you have.

Please read https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

therefore the authority that such a person or institution holds does not have any intrinsic bearing upon whether their claims are true or not.

 

[Ross Thomson]

Sorry but who? Question, who's testing would I trust a link to a website I've never heard of that rates an AIO at 100%, (a very high rating for an AIO)

you miss understand what that chart means. All the coolers performance relative to that of the coolermaster 360.

The warranties usually out after 2 years max then assuming it's not a closed system in which case it could be new AIO time, .

cryorig 6 years warranty
Corsair 5 years warranty
NZXT 6 years warranty
EVGA 5 year warranty

 

[doyll]

Indeed, all CLCs have longer warranties than 2 years.

Cryorig warranty is:

Heatsinks and Coolers: 3 years
Fans: 3 Years
Cases : 2 Years
http://www.cryorig.com/warranty.php​

Corsair cooling product warranty is:

Hydro Series™ products have a 5 year warranty
Hydro X Series Core products have a limited 3 year warranty (blocks, pumps, radiators)
Hydro X Series Accessory products have a 2 year warranty (coolant, tubing, fittings)
ML Series™ products have a 5 year warranty
Air Series™ products have a 2 year warranty
All fan products have a 2 year warranty
https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/warranty
​

EVGA warranty is
https://www.evga.com/articles/01081/evga-clc-liquid-cpu-cooler/

https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/warranty​

NZXT warranty is

E Series power supplies offer a 10-year warranty.
Kraken X Series liquid coolers carry a 6-year.
Kraken M22 carry a 3-year warranty.
https://www.nzxt.com/warranty​

So AIOs / CLCs have 3-5year warranties, but if you want your system working while processing warranty you need a spare cooler to install and use until replacement is in hand.

 

[Ross Thomson]

Indeed, all CLCs have longer warranties than 2 years.

Cryorig warranty is:

Heatsinks and Coolers: 3 years
Fans: 3 Years
Cases : 2 Years
http://www.cryorig.com/warranty.php​

cryorig AIO's are 6 years (you do have to register your product) I broke my retention plate on my old one and just used the box cooler that came with the CPU till I got a replacement. You don't have to be without a computer.

 

[doyll]

cryorig AIO's are 6 years (you do have to register your product) I broke my retention plate on my old one and just used the box cooler that came with the CPU till I got a replacement. You don't have to be without a computer.

While you may be correct in some cases, you are making assumptions that are definitely not always true.
Many of us get CPUs without any kind of cooler. So if owner one who bought a bare CPU and don't have a cooler (be it one that came with CPU or another) they will not be able to use their system after a CLC failure until they get another cooler.

Cryorig doesn't really 'double' their 3 year warranty. They extend it to 6 years from date product was made.

"Users are required to register their product within one month of purchase. After this period the Extended Warranty will automatically begin to diminish based on the product production date."​

The working is not clear, so I'm not sure what "this period" means in their above statement. Is it after one month from when purchases or after original 3 year warranty ends. but it is clear their extended warranty starts from date product was made, not when it is purchased. The above is stated in link below:
http://www.cryorig.com/warranty.php

I supplied link to each cooler company showing what they said warranty is. Can you supply a link to Cryorig proving their CLCs have 6 year warranty?

 

[Ross Thomson]

cryorig is 6 years from purchase if you register with their AIO's. Its pretty clear from their website.

PRODUCT REGISTRATION AND EXTENDED WARRANTY

1. Registered Products will receive Extended Warranty, the extension will be based on their respective category, unless stated otherwise in their Product Page
Heatsinks and Coolers: +3 years

http://www.cryorig.com/warranty_faq.php

 

[doyll]

Not from purchace. Look at quote in my previous post. It clearly says".... Extended Warranty will automatically begin to diminish based on the product production date." I added the underline that clearly says production date, which is when it was made, not when it was sold to consumer. Obviously the production date is month or two before it reaches retail shelves for consumer purchace in western hemisphere countries.. Time from manufacture to container to shipping port to ship to destination port, through customs and trucked to distributor then to retail outlets add up to about 2 months .. and if it sets in distribution or big retail outlet warehouse somewhere it could be 6 months or even more before consumer buys it. We are still seeing a few coolers being sold without AM4 mounts because of this same lag between manufacture and purchace by consumer,l and AM4 was launched on September 5, 2016 .. meaning coolers made over 3 years ago are still being sold as new to consumer.

 

[Ross Thomson]

my warranty is 6 years from purchase according to my info from cryorig. nothing about production date

 

[doyll]

my warranty is 6 years from purchase according to my info from cryorig. nothing about production date

You keep saying that, but where is the proof? According to their written warrany as posted online, coolers have 3 year warranty plus 3 more based on production date for registering. You can read the link and see it says exactly what I'm posting here. Written word on a company website is what law is based on, not what you post on a forum with no supporting link to what Cryorig has posted supporting your claim.

 

[Grafter67]

I'll likely get flamed, but imo right now I'd say air is best for CPU and liquid for GPU.

 

[Ross Thomson]

I'll likely get flamed, but imo right now I'd say air is best for CPU and liquid for GPU.

imagine so given how incorrect it is lol

There is no "best" both air and water cool effectively all consumer CPU's without any problems. It just depends how big you need to go and how much space you have.

 

[doyll]

I'll likely get flamed, but imo right now I'd say air is best for CPU and liquid for GPU.

Water cooling GPU does solve the problem of them dumping heated exhaust everywhere. But to me the biggest problems with CLCs is pump noise, failures and cost. They cost more than air cooling, make more noise and don't last as long. To me they are a loose/loose product. When CLcs came out their were hyped as 'water cooling' as if they were like custom loops, and that is not at all true. Asetek originally called them LCLC for 'Low Cost Liquid Cooler', later changing it to CLC for 'Closed Loop Cooler. They are the cheapest possible quality that will last 1-5years, then a new cooler must be purchased. before needing to be replaced. CLCs cost about twice what decent air costs and air coolers last forever. I still using Thermalright Ultra 120 that I got early 2007 and Ultima 90 I got that fall. All I've done is clean, get newer mounts and change fans, not because fan went bad but because I wanted different fans on them.

 

[Grafter67]

My first water cooled rig was with a zalman reserator in around 2004 and it did a fine job as both a room heater and quiet cooler, though I did go through quite a few aquarium pumps with it

 

[doyll]

My first water cooled rig was in late 20th century. Machined my waterblock because that was about only way to get one, pump was mounted in water proof plastic electric wiring box box with hose fittings instead of conduit fittings into car radiator.