Google apparently suspending some business with Huawei.

jpaul said:
yes I had read most of the commitee report (that I also linked earlier) it's more about their 5G s/w process, than, evaluating characteristics of their phones
to ensure there was no hardware backdoor.

ARM or a 3rd party would have to perfrom formal verification that the secure code execution modules, going onto the phone soc had not been modified versus the original specification and behavoural description ... but I have not seen mention of such a process ... so much easier at least for high security commerical companies and security services just to say no Huawei in their environment.

[ the wiki leaks document on Gamma the Uk company used for surveillance makes intereresting reading https://wikileaks.org/spyfiles/docs/GAMMA-2011-NewsQ1-en.pdf
just the banality of it ]

edit - afterthought, given all the monitoring china conducts for it's own population, a phone backdoor has to be the easiest solution - listened to an article about their face recognition, setting off alarms if 'undesirables' arrived at the train station or outside schools.
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China does not need any hardware backdoors in its local equipment as it controls the whole software ecosystem over there,and its not like they are exactly hiding what they are doing.

If GCHQ is not finding these backdoors,I think its becoming more and more hearsay at least at present. It wouldn't surprise me if similar concerns were made about Japan and South Korea decades ago either,and it will be the case if you use any countries equipment for infrastructure. If anything it should be standard practice to check any imported equipment,even if it is for shoddy engineering which could be exploited by criminals and I would be more concerned with that aspect of certain Chinese equipment TBH! :p So I think what they doing is correct,as the UK is using more and more equipment not being developed or made by UK or European companies.

I am surprised it took the Chinese threat for us to start looking more closely at equipment. I thought this should be standard operating practice.

It might be a thing for even stuff like phones to be shipped as bare hardware,so the OSes can be installed over here,to mitigate any chance of dodgy software being installed in the countries of origin.

It also has been shown by various leaks the NSA are involved in a ton of spying with details of the tools released,to the extent of the NSA installing backdoors on Cisco routers,and that the German government was spied on by US intelligence agencies. The problem,is we don't really know what all the US companies are doing either,and as a European,maybe we need to be thinking of more European centric platforms,instead of using Chinese,American,South Korean,etc stuff.

People are using unsafe platforms like Facebook which are being data mined by companies. This is hardware agnostic,meaning any platform can be compromised as its the user installing the software.

Palantir technologies and Cambridge Analytica worked on data mining Facebook:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palantir_Technologies
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/27/pal...ytica-on-the-facebook-data-whistleblower.html

Who are they data mining facebook and other social media for?? The highest bidder,which could mean anybody,be it a private company or any country around the world.

WhatsApp was hacked by an Israeli company:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-company-nso-group-suspected-of-hacking-whatsapp/

Again,who for??

Its is easier to compromise social media platforms. Do you know that even "loyalty cards" are used for data mining customers?? Apparently changes in health,etc can be confirmed by looking at changes in what you buy. Plus any Google product is data mining your whole existence,and that data is being sold on,apparently just for better marketing of products. But we don't know the extent of what is happening and whether third parties can exploit this.

Epic games is 40% owned by the Chinese giant Tencent,so again we don't know if the EGS is being data mined either??
 
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neil_g said:
Meanwhile (another) hardware level vulnerability found in Cisco:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/opinion/internet-security.html
Click to expand...

That is the other end of the spectrum to the China fears. Our own companies just using iterative designed tech based stuff developed decades ago,without going to clean sheet designs,as they want to save on R and D costs. Hence the problems we see with Intel CPUs,etc are based on the age of the core design elements.

neil_g said:
Trump now saying a deal can be done with Hu.

Wait, so it's not about security then Trump?
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Really?? LOL.
 
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shaunwwfc said:
That is just not true though. I wish people would stop talking as if all this means Huawei devices will suddenly not turn on. It is borderline fake news unless you are talking about devices that will be released after those 90 days, and even those may have been greenlit whilst in production and failing that they are still not "useless"

Although it is not ideal any current Huawei phone will still receive support from Google Services (including Play Store) just not upcoming Google OS updates. They will be the same phone in 2-3 years that they are now, is that useless? Not for me, far, far from it.
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Everywhere I've read they say the Play Store wont work anymore. No Play Store = usless phone imo

Huawei are trying to intice developers to make the same apps for their App Gallary with monetary incentives. My SIM only contract ends next month and I'm thinking of selling my Honor 8X and getting a Samsung or Google Pixel 3A XL because of this news
 
Google said on twitter that play services would be supported on existing devices but didnt clarify (afaik) whether that includes the play store itself or not.
 
From a UK point of view, I'm sure CESG have performed their investigations into Huawei's communications equipment.
 
elrasho said:
That makes zero sense, Play services includes Play Store
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they didnt say all play services.

For Huawei users' questions regarding our steps to comply w/ the recent US government actions: We assure you while we are complying with all US gov't requirements, services like Google Play & security from Google Play Protect will keep functioning on your existing Huawei device.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/Android/status/1130313848332988421

its a bit poorly worded. I do expect the play store to continue functioning though.
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
China does not need any hardware backdoors in its local equipment
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every little helps ... I had not realised whatsapp is banned https://www.travelchinacheaper.com/index-blocked-websites-in-china
(and porn sites ... that must save them a lot of internet bandwidth - 30% is it.)

Here's a proof of concept for backdoor arm access on Galaxy s5 from 2018 https://blog.quarkslab.com/attacking-the-arms-trustzone.html
if they/chinese have the ARM behavioural description in their hands, they can do a lot more, significantly reducing any computing resources they need to monitor folks,
... if you control the random number generator for crypto keys

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
If GCHQ is not finding these backdoors,I think its becoming more and more hearsay at least at present.
Click to expand...
gchq 's not omnipotent -they don't have resources to reverse engineer a soc.
 
jpaul said:
every little helps ... I had not realised whatsapp is banned https://www.travelchinacheaper.com/index-blocked-websites-in-china
(and porn sites ... that must save them a lot of internet bandwidth - 30% is it.)

Here's a proof of concept for backdoor arm access on Galaxy s5 from 2018 https://blog.quarkslab.com/attacking-the-arms-trustzone.html
if they/chinese have the ARM behavioural description in their hands, they can do a lot more, significantly reducing any computing resources they need to monitor folks,
... if you control the random number generator for crypto keys


gchq 's not omnipotent -they don't have resources to reverse engineer a soc.
Click to expand...

But GCHQ knows much more than most people - they are one who discovered the mathematics behind RSA encryption years before it was commercially discovered(the maths was unsolvable for 100s of years),and had to keep quiet due to the official secrets act,and I would say be wary of underestimating what they can do as they are very secretive. They implemented Tempora which is a mass communication intercept system operated in the UK,and if Snowdon hadn't leaked its existence hardly anyone would know it existed.

As of now they haven't seen any indications,but then as I said its good they keep checking devices to make sure if there is something dodgy,which is what any country should be doing for any of these kinds of devices imported from abroad. TBH,I am more surprised this wasn't standard operating procedure.

If you are very worried about your privacy don't use any smartphone,loyalty card,etc. Heck,you would just ignore Android and Windows 10 anyway,and either go for a phone with an open source OS or perhaps even Apple,the latter of which has less need to data mine,but even then we just don't know.Stand back and think how much information you are giving everyday to these companies willingly.

Also,you are now pointing to an old Samsung device,so does that mean South Koreans are now spying on us?? Or is the UK since its an ARM based product ?People have pointed out very real vulnerabilities in Cisco network gear,and all those Intel issues also have real potential security implications especially in commercial usage - so is this the NSA? No,these are all based on penny pinching by said companies pushing iterative improvements,which means decades old flaws are never patched. Epic had a vulnerability which lead to tons of user data being leaked:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fortnite-security-flaw-exposed-millions-of-users-to-being-hacked/

It was from 2004! Epic is nearly 50% owned by Tencent,so I thought you would be more worried about that TBH.

You seem less worried about all the mass data mining being done by commercial firms using cross-platforms software, which can be sold to ANY third party be it companies,individuals or governments. The Onion sums it up well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqggW08BWO0



So if China wanted to spy on the world,what about everyone who doesn't use a Chinese phone,or uses their computer instead?? You could have the most secure phone or computer,but uses Facebook,and bam all that data is being potentially used for other stuff.

Google and Facebook know everything about people who use their platforms and have you considered if they are selling all this data to advertisers,who are these advertisers?? Could be genuine or a foreign shell company. Plus there are so many issues with these apps and platforms due to poor engineering which could be compromised by hackers,or other companies which is what CA and PT were accused of doing. Who were they selling all this mined data to?

Also reading around stuff,I get the impression for government usage,the phones,tablets,etc used by VVIP would be checked anyway,and there is many countries where secure versions of iOS and Android are used anyway:
https://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/03/tech/mobile/government-android-phones/index.html

That would mean all the hardware would have to pass certain standards anyway. Blackberry lasted so long due to its nature. Russia even bypassed Android and uses Sailfish which is Finnish but its customised for governmental use:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewansp...ailfish-os-russia-certification/#50a929cd2a98
https://nokiamob.net/2019/02/09/sailfish-os-is-now-aurora-os-in-russia/

Anyway,we will need to wait and see how this all goes - I suppose it does mean maybe more people think more of where stuff is made,and whether it supports local economies,and it might mean more jobs pushed back to Europe,US. Who knows.
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
But GCHQ knows much more than most people
Click to expand...
Read up on silicon design - gchq and the usa (+ westen hi-tech companies) can't confirm huawei phones are benign, so they just don't allow them, that's the easiest way.
everyday western citizen is not going to be their target though, agree.

Still waiting for the significant viruses/ransomwear to have widespread impact on (android/ios) mobile phones, like PC's, which I don't fully understand -
the weaknesses on the likes of samsung phones, and whatsapp exploit are the ones we know about.

facebook does not yet have access to its acolytes bank accounts ... but apparently not for much longer.
apple pay might be a good target, if you are able to attack the (effectively RSA) key generation mechansim (RNG).

GCHQ prowess was exemplified by Mr Turing, the more recent RSA pre-invention, amusing, since they apparently didn't know what to do with the idea.
 
Some Advice Please!

I've recently bought my wife a Huawei M5 8.4 tablet, it doesn't have a sim card. I installed various apps from the Play Store from her original purchases on a LG G5 mobile. She only wants it to play music, games and view videos whist travelling. It's running Oreo.

How is the current situation likely to affect her? Will Play store remove/bar her installed apps, stop her from using Chrome, turn the tablet into a Brick?

Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks
 
You'll probably be fine. I'm reasonably sure anything already sold is said to not be effected? (I don't know huge amounts about it though. I'm sure someone more in touch will be along shortly.)
 
Draeger said:
All this is a Storm in a Tea Cup TBQFH.
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I read before all this Huawei thing that the biggest threat to global security and overall the biggest threat to the west more so than any other country is China.


I don't think it is Storm in a teacup to be frank.
 
jpaul said:
The profit made by apple may exceed their competitors despite the smaller worldwide market share (to wit the X's price, smaller volume, but sustained company profit),
so Apple have postitoned themselves via clever branding at a market point where increased volume and selling for lower margins abroad might not yield higher profits,
are the Chinese themselves even immune to the siren allure of the apples marketting ?
Foreign currency should be more important to Apple, so whether they will have to compete at a lower price point, against the dragon ... rather than exploiting there own populus
Click to expand...

Market share by unit sales is very misleading when applied to the mobile phone market when a high end unit could be 20 times the price of the entry level unit. Particularity when the high end still gets high sales. In most other industries the high end a very low % of sales. When you look at revenue share you get a much more realistic picture of how strong each company is in comparison to each other.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/773772/mobile-device-revenue-share-by-vendor-worldwide/
 
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