GPU price hike

4K8KW10 · 13 Sep 2019 at 13:02

henson0115 said:
so you think rather than lower prices and continue to make money albeit a little less, but maybe more sales due to more people having access to it, they would shut down and stop making any money all together? ok then righto.

More sales means more money, not less money. And more market share, besides all the other benefits.

In profit making there is no value for anyone. Even for the shareholders. It is just a temporary effect which misleads them, and in the long term, they lose a lot.

TNA · 13 Sep 2019 at 14:02

4K8KW10 said:
More sales means more money, not less money. And more market share, besides all the other benefits.

In profit making there is no value for anyone. Even for the shareholders. It is just a temporary effect which misleads them, and in the long term, they lose a lot.

I think you may have revenue confused with profit. You can make billions in sales (revenue) but end up with little to no profit, worse a loss. AMD know this very well. It is possible to sell less units at bigger margins and make more profit also.

In a nutshell profit is profit. More sales does not always equal to more profit

henson0115 · 13 Sep 2019 at 15:30

4K8KW10 said:
More sales means more money, not less money. And more market share, besides all the other benefits.

In profit making there is no value for anyone. Even for the shareholders. It is just a temporary effect which misleads them, and in the long term, they lose a lot.

if only business was this black and white

, TNA has it right.

just to show you how complicated sales can actually be; an example is sony, they lose money on the consoles, but make there money back from the software sold, which more than makes up for the hardware loss.

Nasher · 13 Sep 2019 at 16:17

Microsoft makes a loss on xbox sales as well.

But now everyone charges console prices for PC games as well, even though it's an open platform requiring no licencing etc :/

4K8KW10 · 13 Sep 2019 at 17:17

Nasher said:
Microsoft makes a loss on xbox sales as well.

12GB of GDDR5 is expensive. Why does it need 12GB GDDR5 and 1TB HDD?
Probably AMD charges too much for the supplied APUs, too.

Nasher said:
But now everyone charges console prices for PC games as well, even though it's an open platform requiring no licencing etc :/

DarrenM343 · 13 Sep 2019 at 17:17

henson0115 said:
if only business was this black and white , TNA has it right.

just to show you how complicated sales can actually be; an example is sony, they lose money on the consoles, but make there money back from the software sold, which more than makes up for the hardware loss.

You're right too but it's a different market however.
Maybe NV should charge £800 for the 2080 Ti, although they'd not supply enough to meet demand probably, and then £50 for each new driver release to support new games?

So, it'll never cost you more than £800 if you play games older than when the hardware was released.

PC games costing similar to that of console variants is unfortunately down to the game software development houses.

4K8KW10 · 13 Sep 2019 at 17:23

I don't understand why AMD doesn't design GPUs to be able to handle 4K in the same way as RX 5700XT handles Full HD?

That will solve them the problem of ever lasting performance lag against nvidia.

Nasher · 13 Sep 2019 at 17:24

DarrenM343 said:
You're right too but it's a different market however.
Maybe NV should charge £800 for the 2080 Ti, although they'd not supply enough to meet demand probably, and then £50 for each new driver release to support new games? So, it'll never cost you more than £800 if you play games older than when the hardware was released.

PC games costing similar to that of console variants is unfortunately down to the game software development houses.

People would just pirate/hack the drivers. Or refuse to pay for the updates then complain non stop on their forums for them to fix old drivers

Hades · 13 Sep 2019 at 17:51

AMD drivers have been open sourced so they will always be free

henson0115 · 13 Sep 2019 at 18:33

Nasher said:
But now everyone charges console prices for PC games as well, even though it's an open platform requiring no licencing etc :/

This wouldn't be as much of an issue, if at that price you received the full game, they didn't try to sell the other half as dlc, but that's a whole other can of worms

henson0115 · 13 Sep 2019 at 18:39

4K8KW10 said:
I don't understand why AMD doesn't design GPUs to be able to handle 4K in the same way as RX 5700XT handles Full HD?

That will solve them the problem of ever lasting performance lag against nvidia.

if its that simple why dont you go ahead and do it?

besides 4k aint truly mainstream yet, if it was everyone would be running 2070/80/5700/xt etc and that just simply isnt the case. there are still thousands of people running last gen hardware in the mid to mid-high range (myself included here with a v64). the simple answer is if they can produce a card that competes with the 2070/80/70s or whatever, why do they need a halo product as when you say 4k that's what you really mean. they dont, the 5700 series proved that.

TNA · 13 Sep 2019 at 19:24

4K8KW10 said:
I don't understand why AMD doesn't design GPUs to be able to handle 4K in the same way as RX 5700XT handles Full HD?

That will solve them the problem of ever lasting performance lag against nvidia.

Lol. With comments like these I can see why you don't understand

greatash · 13 Sep 2019 at 19:58

Nasher said:
Microsoft makes a loss on xbox sales as well.

Really? is that the one X? because I know the PS4 and Xbox One have been sold at a profit since launch, hence the subpar hardware.

4K8KW10 · 13 Sep 2019 at 20:23

henson0115 said:
if its that simple why dont you go ahead and do it? besides 4k aint truly mainstream yet, if it was everyone would be running 2070/80/5700/xt etc and that just simply isnt the case. there are still thousands of people running last gen hardware in the mid to mid-high range (myself included here with a v64). the simple answer is if they can produce a card that competes with the 2070/80/70s or whatever, why do they need a halo product as when you say 4k that's what you really mean. they dont, the 5700 series proved that.

TNA said:
Lol. With comments like these I can see why you don't understand

Rofl. It might be that you lack understanding more than I do. Dr. Lisa Su has previously clarified that they design the future products based on their estimates where the competition will be then.

So, question - how on Earth did AMD manage to overtake intel's IPC but no way in hell can they even touch the previous generation of nvidia's ? ?

TNA · 13 Sep 2019 at 20:27

greatash said:
Really? is that the one X? because I know the PS4 and Xbox One have been sold at a profit since launch, hence the subpar hardware.

I was under the impression Sony stopped doing the making a loss thing after PS3 where they made big losses on the hardware. Maybe he is thinking of an old story that applied to the previous gen.

4K8KW10 said:
Rofl. It might be that you lack understanding more than I do. Dr. Lisa Su has previously clarified that they design the future products based on their estimates where the competition will be then.

So, question - how on Earth did AMD manage to overtake intel's IPC but no way in hell can they even touch the previous generation of nvidia's ? ?

Lol again. Don't think this is the case at all. If it was that easy then why not slap an extra 50% performance in there to guarantee being the best card and charge silly money for it?

I could explain to you my understanding of it, but I get the feeling you would just continue arguing yours

Why are you telling me what Lisa Su says anyway, I could raise you with a load of ******** Jensen regularly says?

4K8KW10 · 13 Sep 2019 at 20:29

TNA said:
Lol again. Don't think this is the case at all. If it was that easy then why not slap an extra 50% performance in there to guarantee being the best card and charge silly money for it?

I could explain to you my understanding of it, but I get the feeling you would just continue arguing yours

It was easy to design Zen, right? My question is why.

TNA · 13 Sep 2019 at 20:35

4K8KW10 said:
It was easy to design Zen, right? My question is why.

Dude, that was something that took them like half a decade or more and they brought in Jim Keller to sort a good design out for them. Not just that but AMD have hardly had any money and they put most of the R&D into Zen, not into GPU products. That is my understanding anyway.

Honestly, this stuff is a lot more complicated than you are making it sound like which makes me think you don't understand it.

Oh and AMD and Zen 2 is looking so good because Intel dropped the ball big time with the 7nm fabs. Otherwise they would still be ahead.

Why don't you answer my question? If it was that easy then why not slap an extra 50% performance in there to guarantee being the best card and charge silly money for it?

bru · 13 Sep 2019 at 21:12

Oh dear, somebody either doesn't understand the difficulties in designing these types of chips or they are just trolling.

Panos · 13 Sep 2019 at 21:23

4K8KW10 said:
It was easy to design Zen, right? My question is why.

5700 & 5700XT are the 1700X & 1800X from 2017 according to AMD.
First gen of a brand new architecture.

Nvidia is still on Maxwel architecture, as shaders technology goes.

Also with Navi AMD has beaten royally the similarly priced 2060S.

henson0115 · 14 Sep 2019 at 09:36

TNA said:
I was under the impression Sony stopped doing the making a loss thing after PS3 where they made big losses on the hardware. Maybe he is thinking of an old story that applied to the previous gen.

ps4 made a loss at launch and wasnt recovered until after launch. i think they are now sold at a profit (marginally) not that it matters really.