Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [30th Apr - 2nd May 2021]

bayo000 said:
Would you feel that you deserve that European spot even though you didn't play as many games as the other teams?
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They wouldn't care. Not even a little. People are massively tribal when it comes to football and as long as its not their team being punished they are perfectly happy.
 
So the only thing they could really do, due to United midweek commitments is to make the Liverpool WBA match into a midweek one and then play the match that weekend instead.
 
bayo000 said:
Bring on the ESL then. ;)
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Huh, you do realise that the fans wouldn't get paid if their team was in the ESL...

Wages would go up for those team, transfer fees would go up for the players going to those teams and the owners would make more money. The football wouldn't get any better and we would be bored of seeing "European" football week in week out with exactly the same teams.

The fans didn't want it because it wouldn't fundamentally make their experience any better and it would just line the pockets of the owners at the expense of 90% of the other teams in the current domestic leagues.
 
fez said:
Huh, you do realise that the fans wouldn't get paid if their team was in the ESL...

Wages would go up for those team, transfer fees would go up for the players going to those teams and the owners would make more money. The football wouldn't get any better and we would be bored of seeing "European" football week in week out with exactly the same teams.

The fans didn't want it because it wouldn't fundamentally make their experience any better and it would just line the pockets of the owners at the expense of 90% of the other teams in the current domestic leagues.
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I mean that in principle it is pretty much the same thing. Forfeiting this match and giving Liverpool the 3 points, they could qualify for European competition whilst not playing all league games. Taking that spot from a team that played all 38 league games.
 
bayo000 said:
I mean that in principle it is pretty much the same thing. Forfeiting this match and giving Liverpool the 3 points, they could qualify for European competition whilst not playing all league games. Taking that spot from a team that played all 38 league games.
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Sorry, i'm not following.What is the same as what?

I'm simply saying that most fans are really tribal and would take any advantage given to their team and for the most part support any punishment of a rival.
 
fez said:
Of course they are responsible for that but there is only so much they can do against hundreds/thousands of people that want to break in. You don't have to be violent to break into a massive stadium. People managed to break into the US capitol building a while ago without much effort. 99/100 they would have protested peacefully and the handling of it would have been fine. They didn't expect people to break into the stadium or turn violent and were unprepared for it. There is only so much you can do without treating any protest as a potential large scale riot. The police/United don't have the resources to do that. Police are understaffed and have to be reactionary. They can't preempt worse case scenarios with limited resources.
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You would have to be violent if there was proper security in place. Had the stadium been cordoned off with rings of stewards and police then they would have had to physically forced their way through. I've seen the clips of supporters kicking a door in to get inside the stadium - it was 2 morons and 100+ sheep. Those 2 morons might have tried to force their way through but the sheep wouldn't.
bayo000 said:
IMO the only situation where any game gets forfeited is if the players/ coaching stuff do something that puts the game taking place into a risk. It's not fair on them or indeed other 18 clubs in the league for one team to benefit from "free" points for not even kicking a ball. It could also set a dangerous precedence where fans will know they could disrupt a rival team's game and get them to drop points.

Say the game gets forfeited, you get the 3 points. Liverpool finishes 4th, one point ahead of 5th and 2 points ahead of 6th. Would you feel that you deserve that European spot even though you didn't play as many games as the other teams?
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Have you imagined me saying the game should be forfeited? My reply to fez was regarding the club being responsible for the game being called-off.

Regarding your general point though, you seem to be concentrating on what's fair for other clubs not involved but not what is fair for Liverpool. As Misschief points out, the only possible time this game can now be played is the weekend of the 15th/16th with the Liverpool - West Brom game being moved to the midweek before. Liverpool and West Brom have now been disadvantaged as a result of the actions of Man Utd and their supporters. Although unlikely, West Brom could still stay up but are now having to play Liverpool with 3 days rest instead of a week and a total of 3 games in 7 days. The same for Liverpool in their attempts to qualify for Europe. How do you compensate these sides for the disadvantage they've been given through no fault of their own?
 
BaZ87 said:
Have you imagined me saying the game should be forfeited? My reply to fez was regarding the club being responsible for the game being called-off.
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You mentioned that the game won't be forfeited because of commercial reasons and I just added my reason why it shouldn't be, that's all.

Regarding your general point though, you seem to be concentrating on what's fair for other clubs not involved but not what is fair for Liverpool. As Misschief points out, the only possible time this game can now be played is the weekend of the 15th/16th with the Liverpool - West Brom game being moved to the midweek before. Liverpool and West Brom have now been disadvantaged as a result of the actions of Man Utd and their supporters. Although unlikely, West Brom could still stay up but are now having to play Liverpool with 3 days rest instead of a week and a total of 3 games in 7 days. The same for Liverpool in their attempts to qualify for Europe. How do you compensate these sides for the disadvantage they've been given through no fault of their own?
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Why should either Liverpool or Wes Brom be compensated for playing in mid week, it's not something new that has never been done before. Teams playing 3 games in 7 days has been common for years and even more so this season. Should all teams be compensated if their fixture move to midweek because an opposition team progresses further in a cup competition?

As I said yesterday I'm quite happy for united to have points deducted/ given large fine for failing to secure the ground but fans calling for the game to be forfeited or crying about having one of their remaining fixture moved is silly. Ideally the game should have been played yesterday with no/ little affect on rest of the league.
 
bayo000 said:
Why should either Liverpool or Wes Brom be compensated for playing in mid week, it's not something new that has never been done before. Teams playing 3 games in 7 days has been common for years and even more so this season. Should all teams be compensated if their fixture move to midweek because an opposition team progresses further in a cup competition?

As I said yesterday I'm quite happy for united to have points deducted/ given large fine for failing to secure the ground but fans calling for the game to be forfeited or crying about having one of their remaining fixture moved is silly. Ideally the game should have been played yesterday with no/ little affect on rest of the league.
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Why does it matter if teams have had to play 3 games in 7 days before? And your point about rescheduling of fixtures due to cup progression doesn't hold any water - these are planned weeks in advance. Clubs will know that x will be moved to y if z progresses.

Liverpool and West Brom's schedule was weekend - weekend - weekend - weekend, there was no reason why that schedule could or would change. They would have planned their training, team selections and even substitutions around that schedule. They're now potentially going to be asked to play weekend - midweek - weekend. They've been disadvantaged.
 
BaZ87 said:
Why does it matter if teams have had to play 3 games in 7 days before? And your point about rescheduling of fixtures due to cup progression doesn't hold any water - these are planned weeks in advance. Clubs will know that x will be moved to y if z progresses.

Liverpool and West Brom's schedule was weekend - weekend - weekend - weekend, there was no reason why that schedule could or would change. They would have planned their training, team selections and even substitutions around that schedule. They're now potentially going to be asked to play weekend - midweek - weekend. They've been disadvantaged.
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Ask PL why they didn't reschedule the game for yesterday which wouldn't disadvantage Liverpool or Wes Brom. I'm sorry but considering that playing in mid week is fairly common I expect all teams having a training program they can switch to. Sure the short notice is not ideal but professional teams should be able to manage and I don't really see it as disadvantage considering it's been around for years.
 
bayo000 said:
Ask PL why they didn't reschedule the game for yesterday which wouldn't disadvantage Liverpool or Wes Brom. I'm sorry but considering that playing in mid week is fairly common I expect all teams having a training program they can switch to. Sure the short notice is not ideal but professional teams should be able to manage and I don't really see it as disadvantage considering it's been around for years.
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I'm not going to ask the PL anything. I assume it wasn't logisitically possible to play the game the next day. You need to arrange policing and stewards for the game to go ahead and that can't be done at the drop of a hat, particularly with the prospect of further protests the next day.

Playing midweek might be fairly common but that's not the issue here. It's the lack of time for preparation and planning. If the West Brom - Liverpool game is to be moved, we're now 8 days away from when it might be moved and neither club still knows if that game will be played then. How are Liverpool and West Brom meant to plan their preparations for this weekends games when they don't know if they're going to have to play another game on Wednesday or not? There will be players that might be carrying injuries or fitness issues and can only play once in a week, how do they decide whether to play them on Saturday/Sunday, when they don't know when their next game is? If the plan is to move the West Brom game to next midweek then both Liverpool and West Brom have now been disadvantaged and through no fault of their own.
 
BaZ87 said:
I'm not going to ask the PL anything. I assume it wasn't logisitically possible to play the game the next day. You need to arrange policing and stewards for the game to go ahead and that can't be done at the drop of a hat, particularly with the prospect of further protests the next day.

Playing midweek might be fairly common but that's not the issue here. It's the lack of time for preparation and planning. If the West Brom - Liverpool game is to be moved, we're now 8 days away from when it might be moved and neither club still knows if that game will be played then. How are Liverpool and West Brom meant to plan their preparations for this weekends games when they don't know if they're going to have to play another game on Wednesday or not? There will be players that might be carrying injuries or fitness issues and can only play once in a week, how do they decide whether to play them on Saturday/Sunday, when they don't know when their next game is? If the plan is to move the West Brom game to next midweek then both Liverpool and West Brom have now been disadvantaged and through no fault of their own.
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It’s a nothing game now West Brom have lost anyway :p:p
 
BaZ87 said:
For it to be a red card, for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity, you have to be all but certain that Vardy is getting the ball and I don't think it's even likely that he is. The ball was won and diverted out of Vardy's path and the keeper was most likely to get to the ball. If he has been sent off for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity then it's a ridiculously harsh decision.

Hopefully the suspension stands though, Southampton's next game is vs us.
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https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/...southampton-fc-wrongful-dismissal-fa-decision

Southampton defender Jannik Vestergaard will now be available for Saturday's trip to Liverpool after the club successfully appealed the red card he received against Leicester City.

Vestergaard was dismissed inside the opening 10 minutes at St Mary's, having been judged to have denied Jamie Vardy an obvious goalscoring opportunity.

Following an appeal process and a review by an independent regulatory commission at the Football Association, the card and subsequent suspension have now been rescinded.

A statement from The FA read as follows: "An independent Regulatory Commission has removed Jannik Vestergaard’s one-match suspension following a successful claim of wrongful dismissal.

"The Southampton FC defender was dismissed for denying an obvious goalscoring opportunity during the Premier League fixture against Leicester City FC on Friday 30 April 2021."
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Thats quite the schedule. We have Roma, Villa, Leicester and Liverpool in 8 days.
 
While no one expected Liverpool to be handed to points from the game surely some charges are going to be brought against Man Utd, they can't just brush it under the carpet
 
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