Greenlizard0 PL Football Thread Final Day ** spoilers ** [26th July 2020]

[BaZ87]

Not really, we needed a left sided centre back and a leader and he's filled that role. The fee was a little high but again, who was available that was better? He's turned our defence around and made it one of the best in the league.

If your house needed completely refurbishing, including needing a new TV and I offered you a 32 inch Sharp for 4 times it's worth would you buy it just because all the Sony's and Samsungs were sold out?

Would you really be sat on the floor in your empty living room, watching the game on your £4k Sharp 32 inch and be defending the decision with "well I needed a tv"?

 

[omnomnom]

Not really, we needed a left sided centre back and a leader and he's filled that role. The fee was a little high but again, who was available that was better? He's turned our defence around and made it one of the best in the league.

His recent press conferences have been concerning. He's complained about Pereira not playing simple enough, him not being used to missing players for a preseason (apparently he's never managed a club on an international tournament year before) There is a overwhelming stench of negativity coming from him.

I don't really want Maguire, I don't think he's a bad player but I'm not convinced he's an improvement and the price is insane.

Maguire is probably the least exciting signing I can imagine. I doubt he'll be bad, he's probably a slight upgrade for us. But he's underwhelming for what will probably be a pretty expensive signing.

Uh huh.

 

[Shamikebab]

If your house needed completely refurbishing, including needing a new TV and I offered you a 32 inch Sharp for 4 times it's worth would you buy it just because all the Sony's and Samsungs were sold out?

Would you really be sat on the floor in your empty living room, watching the game on your £4k Sharp 32 inch and be defending the decision with "well I needed a tv"?

We weren't looking to build a team in one summer. You don't buy a bunch of average players and then look to compete for titles. Is it better to do what LvG did and buy a large number of cheaper players and then see them leave over the next 2/3 years because they aren't good enough?

 

[Shamikebab]

Uh huh.

You mean I can change my opinion after seeing a player play? SHOCK

We've gone from conceding 31 goals more than the leaders to 3 goals more. And that is with our GK having a relatively poor season. Everyone but you can see the improvement Maguire has brought to our defense.

 

[BaZ87]

We weren't looking to build a team in one summer. ...

In which case don't spend £80m on Maguire. Wait for a truly world class CB to become available and spend that £80m on actual top class players in other positions that you need. The fact that you're saying you weren't building the side in one summer only makes the decision worse! The only justification for signing Maguire for £80m is either you believe he was a genuine world class CB and worth the fee (which is madness) or you were making a short-term, quick fix decision, "who is the best we can get now".

I don't want to upset Adam by mentioning Liverpool but that's exactly what we done. We needed a CB and keeper long before we signed Alisson and VVD but when we couldn't get them (and we tried to sign both before we go them) we didn't just throw £70m at Kepa or £80m at Maguire. We instead signed our Mane's, Wijnaldum's and Salah's and waited until we could get the right player, not settling for 2nd rate players.

 

[omnomnom]

You mean I can change my opinion after seeing a player play? SHOCK

We've gone from conceding 31 goals more than the leaders to 3 goals more. And that is with our GK having a relatively poor season. Everyone but you can see the improvement Maguire has brought to our defense.

I said United fans thought it was underwhelming and you disagreed, you LITERALLY said it was. You've also made a few posts where you're defending De Gea and blaming Maguire and now he's up there with VVD?

You are so biased. Even Redcafe...the absolute peak of bias dont rate him :

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/our-defence-has-it-actually-been-fixed.451599/page-17

Maguire... I weep for our scouting and negotiating teams.

You only need to look at City and Liverpool to know you need a world-class defender and goalkeeper to challenge for/win the league. United don't have one in either department. #mufc

Our defence is making me vomit at the moment.

I don't even consider ol' Slab Ed an upgrade on Lindelof. Sure he's stronger and better in the air, but he's worse positionally and far worse on the ball.

Lindelof isn't good enough and shouldn't be starting for Manchester United. There's a case there for Maguire too but we definitely need a replacement for Victor next year. We missed Shaw today 100%.

Not sure how De Gea was responsible for the first goal, it's 100% a Maguire error.

I havent even quoted them all and that's on one single page lol. That last one is you...this month.

 

[Shamikebab]

We had already waited for a year to buy a defender. It was clear we needed a partner for Lindelof with the amount of injuries the rest of our defenders had received and Smalling not being the fit for what type of football we wanted to play.

You keep acting like Maguire has been a poor signing. How do you explain how much better our defense has been this year?

 

[Shamikebab]

You realise players make mistakes right? Sometimes a striker will miss a shot and I'll say he should have scored that. It doesn't mean I don't think he's good enough and should be replaced. Honestly I don't think you even watch us Om...

Also at no point have I said he's up there with VVD, not sure why you keep claiming that. VVD is the best defender in the league right now, never said otherwise. I'm not sure if you're lacking comprehension or just trolling me.

 

[omnomnom]

We had already waited for a year to buy a defender. It was clear we needed a partner for Lindelof with the amount of injuries the rest of our defenders had received and Smalling not being the fit for what type of football we wanted to play.

You keep acting like Maguire has been a poor signing. How do you explain how much better our defense has been this year?

I think hes been a terrible signing ,mate just like you thought only last year. Players make mistakes but when your last years posting history has more negative then positive i fail to see why hes now better then Nesta and Maldini in there prime.

You realise players make mistakes right? Sometimes a striker will miss a shot and I'll say he should have scored that. It doesn't mean I don't think he's good enough and should be replaced. Honestly I don't think you even watch us Om...

Also at no point have I said he's up there with VVD, not sure why you keep claiming that. VVD is the best defender in the league right now, never said otherwise.

Are you serious?

As far as Maguire, the fee is irrelevant. It's sunk cost, when saying whether a defender has had a good season or not it doesn't matter what their transfer fee is. Should we be saying Rashford is infinitely better than Martial because he was cheaper? of course not, a player's performance is judged against their peers no matter what price they were. Maguire is one of the best defenders in the league, up there with VVD and Laporte as the top three probably.

Dont start making this personal with your "lacking comprehension" nonsense. You're talking utter biased garbage.

 

[Shamikebab]

Ok I'm blocking you. You're just trolling now and not actually responding to any points I'm raising. Quite happy to have a discussion with Baz because he actually has a discussion. You just raise strawmen constantly.

 

[omnomnom]

Ok I'm blocking you. You're just trolling now and not actually responding to any points I'm raising. Quite happy to have a discussion with Baz because he actually has a discussion. You just raise strawmen constantly.

Mate im quoting what YOURE saying. They arent my words...go ahead and ignore mate. You're more biased then redcafe and that says something.

Edit

Oh ok on your defence?

You play like Stoke and play with a low block. You're RB doesn't go past the half way line. That helps.

 

[BaZ87]

We had already waited for a year to buy a defender. It was clear we needed a partner for Lindelof with the amount of injuries the rest of our defenders had received and Smalling not being the fit for what type of football we wanted to play.

You keep acting like Maguire has been a poor signing. How do you explain how much better our defense has been this year?

Your defence has improved because you signed a very defensive RB, in numerous games played a genuine back 5 and for 3/4's of the season played 2 defensively minded midfielders in front of your back 4/5. And yes, Maguire has improved on Smalling/Jones/Bailly and even Linderlof doesn't look quite the car crash he was before. That doesn't mean Maguire for £85m was a smart move.

But I take it that if you needed a new TV for a couple of years then you'd buy a massively over priced TV if you thought it was the best you could get and would watch it while sat on the floor because you didn't buy a sofa.

Anyway, the above is tongue in cheek but if you genuinely believe the money on Maguire and Pogba was well spent then ok, I think that's lunacy though. The only way I can understand it is that Utd have signed so many bad players over the last years that signing anybody that's been a marginal improvement on what you've had is seen as a good signing, even if they cost way in excess of what they were worth or what others have signed and got similar results.

edit: ok, I think we've done this to death now guys. Maybe it's a good idea to drop it before people start arguing.

 

[Robbo]

Maguire has improved our defence and is a good solid defender with more flaws than I’d ideally like for £80m. But it is what it is.

Pogba is immensely talented as everyone knows, but has been massively inconsistent, very injury prone and his agent is a nightmare. So far he’s not been worth it, but that could change. I’d like him to have a full solid season for us around some better players.

 

[chroniclard]

Even Maquire is an upgrade over Phil Jones.

 

[Shamikebab]

As I said, I don't think there were better options available. I've given you plenty of options to name some though. Which players have moved in that time that we would have been better off signing?

 

[BaZ87]

As I said, I don't think there were better options available. I've given you plenty of options to name some though. Which players have moved in that time that we would have been better off signing?

As you needed a CB for a couple of years then:

• Soyuncu - at least as good as Maguire for a fraction of the fee
• Alderweireld - available for a fraction of the fee, better but obviously older.
• Diop at West Ham, looks a seriously talented CB and cost them £20m
• Hummels - like Alderweireld his age counts against him but a better player for a much smaller fee.

These are just a few that were signed in that period or had a buyout clause that came to mind, with £85m available there's numerous others that I'm sure would have become available to you too that were either better or at least similar quality and would have been cheaper.

 

[Shamikebab]

Diop is nowhere near as good as Maguire. Alderweireld was a few years ago (and we were interested in him ) but he would have likely cost a huge fee and has dropped off a cliff in form in the last year so not a good purchase. Hummels I don't know if he was an option but I don't think we're looking to sign any more players over 30 for large fees. Soyuncu has done well sure but we'll have to see long term who is the better player.

 

[BaZ87]

I think there's a bit of exaggeration in there Shami. Diop looks really good and it's no surprise that there's already been reports linking him with a big money move away from West Ham. If you gave me the option of who I'd take as a long term signing it would be Diop and not because of any bias against Utd. I'm not sure Alderweireld has performed any worse over the last 2 years than Maguire.

Anyway, we're not going to agree but imo Utd could have spent considerably less than £85m and got at least the same return as they've got from Maguire.

 

[Shamikebab]

Diop isn't a leader, he mostly plays on the right and he is nowhere near as good on the ball as Maguire. He doesn't really fit what we need at all. I'm pretty sure Maguire leads him in pretty much all areas except pace.

 

[omnomnom]

Ignore this im an idiot.