Greenlizard0 Premier League Football Thread ** spoilers ** [11th - 14th August 2023]

fez said:
There are loads of decisions that are stone wall that are completely ignore by PGMOL.
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Are there? The pgmol only seem to comment on decisions that are blatantly incorrect. I think you are muddling hte line between subjecetive decisions and ones that are clearly errors - the pgmol came out last year in an identical situation and said the officals got it wrong by not awarding the pen, so the precedent was already there for giving the pen
fez said:
Then you will just have the situation where teams are complaining that PGMOL are being unfair on the decisions they apologise for. Just shifts the whinge somewhere else. Doesn't fix it.
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It brings an element of accountability to the officials as currently there is none whatsoever, hell the var team from yesterdays farce have priors for previous incorrect calls.
fez said:
The only reason this is getting so much attention is because its United so every many and his dog is frothing about it and because he was so clearly late.
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:rolleyes:
fez said:
As others have said, keepers get a strange level of protection to come for the ball, miss it and clatter players. He didn't take out the guy who headed the ball, he took out someone else. It was just comically bad. Those are never given. Will we suddenly see keepers getting cards and giving away penalties whenever they come for the ball, miss and take out a player? Of course we won't.
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Again, identical situation last season, no penalty given and the pgmol apologised for the incorrect call in that game.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Yes I know 2 wrongs don't make a right. However in this instance O'Neil's yellow card came from him swearing at the 4th official "That's a Fing pen etc". He was right to feel the injustice since he was proven correct for the penalty. If they gave the penalty then he wouldn't have got the yellow card. And they have admitted that it should be a penalty...hence it wouldn't have been a yellow card.

Yes, I know 2 wrongs don't make a right.

And of course they won't rescind the yellow card, they can only offer words of kindness and if Wolves are relegated by 1 pt at the end of the season, they can send flowers? They make the rules, they can enforce it and they can amend it.
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He shouldn't be shouting and swearing at the officials, rules are clear and good they're being enforced finally. Hopefully it gets stamped out early in the season.
 
fez said:
No, that still doesn't excuse it. You are essentially saying that when a referee gets a decision wrong then any abuse match officials get should be allowed.

What about players waving a yellow at the ref when a tackle should have been a yellow and it wasn't given.

Being right doesn't give you the excuse. They are trying to stop the abuse towards officials. Full stop.
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cards are overturned all the time on appeal, why should this be any different?
 
fez said:
No, that still doesn't excuse it. You are essentially saying that when a referee gets a decision wrong then any abuse match officials get should be allowed.

What about players waving a yellow at the ref when a tackle should have been a yellow and it wasn't given.

Being right doesn't give you the excuse. They are trying to stop the abuse towards officials. Full stop.
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Yes that is the rule, and you are right on the application of the rule (not arguing that part) but I disagree when they come out later and apologise as if nothing happened because the incident came about as a result of what they did wrong and admitted it so.

I don't think it will make people abuse officials more if a rule comes about that they can rescind the yellow cards, they make the rule....they choose how to apply it, it is all in their hands. In the moment you can't stop people feeling the injustice anyway, whether they can rescind yellow cards or not.
 
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C Kent said:
cards are overturned all the time on appeal, why should this be any different?
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Come on then, show me when a card was overturned for abusing the match officials or are they only overturned when they have been given clearly incorrectly for a tackle for example.

Raymond Lin said:
I don't think it will make people abuse officials more if a rule comes about that they can rescind the yellow cards, they make the rule....they choose how to apply it, it is all in their hands. In the moment you can't stop people feeling the injustice anyway, whether they can rescind yellow cards or not.
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I really don't understand what you are asking here. So you think that you should have a card rescinded for abusing officials only if the PGMOL apologise? If its a horrible and incorrect decision they don't apologise for then you keep it?

No you can't stop people feeling the injustice but they don't feel any more injustice for a decision like yesterday vs any other clearly bad decision.
 
fez said:
Come on then, show me when a card was overturned for abusing the match officials or are they only overturned when they have been given clearly incorrectly for a tackle for example.
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Cards are overturned all the time when the match officals get the decision wrong, the match officials got the decision wrong that ultimately led to the yellow, why should it not be overturned?
 
fez said:
I really don't understand what you are asking here. So you think that you should have a card rescinded for abusing officials only if the PGMOL apologise? If its a horrible and incorrect decision they don't apologise for then you keep it?

No you can't stop people feeling the injustice but they don't feel any more injustice for a decision like yesterday vs any other clearly bad decision.
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How should I explain this....I feel like i talked myself into a corner...

The way I am thinking is that

Yes, I agree about the sentiment and the rule and it's application that they should stop the abuse of officials from both players and staff. However, the referee seems to be immune to any form of, what's the word....accountability from their mistakes.

On one hand, I know you shouldn't react no matter what.

On the other hand, if the officials are not so incompetent, then the above wouldn't have happened. VAR was there to prevent this mistake, do we need VAR for the VAR?

If the yellow card for O'Neil is not rescinded then the Referee who made the mistake needs to hold some accountability, merely sorry isn't enough, perhaps give himself a yellow card....a few more of those then no more being Referee for him...clearly too incompetent to do a job.

I speak this as a Man United fan btw.
 
C Kent said:
Cards are overturned all the time when the match officals get the decision wrong, the match officials got the decision wrong that ultimately led to the yellow, why should it not be overturned?
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Again, because it doesn't work like that. You are not absolved of your bad behaviour just because you think it was justified. Even if someone comes out afterwards and confirms that you should have felt aggrieved. They rescind cards for the person who was mistakenly carded, not the person who was carded for their reaction to the mistake. Your mate was injured by an awful red card challenge that goes unpunished and you get revenge and get a yellow. Should that be rescinded?

Raymond Lin said:
However, the referee seems to be immune to any form of, what's the word....accountability from their mistakes.

the Referee who made the mistake needs to hold some accountability

I speak this as a Man United fan btw.
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The referee largely defers to VAR so they are the ones on the hook here and I would suggest that they have been taken off the next round of games and probably are being spoken to behind the scenes so there is some level of accountability.

Always thought you were Arsenal for some reason. :)

I have fairly strong opinions on VAR and how its used but I have no issue with a zero tolerance approach to abusing refs. I will have no issue when our manager gets carded and I will have no issue when our players are carded. There will be loads of really bad decisions this season for every team that will incense managers. They need to learn not to hurl abuse at officials as a result.
 
fez said:
Again, because it doesn't work like that. You are not absolved of your bad behaviour just because you think it was justified. Even if someone comes out afterwards and confirms that you should have felt aggrieved. They rescind cards for the person who was mistakenly carded, not the person who was carded for their reaction to the mistake.
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Suppose it depends where you fall on 'abusing' refs, saying/shouting 'that's a ******* penalty' isn't abuse, nor does it come remotely close for me.
fez said:
Your mate was injured by an awful red card challenge that goes unpunished and you get revenge and get a yellow. Should that be rescinded?
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2 completely different scenarios - the example you use relies on the physical
 
fez said:
The referee largely defers to VAR so they are the ones on the hook here and I would suggest that they have been taken off the next round of games and probably are being spoken to behind the scenes so there is some level of accountability.

Always thought you were Arsenal for some reason. :)

I have fairly strong opinions on VAR and how its used but I have no issue with a zero tolerance approach to abusing refs. I will have no issue when our manager gets carded and I will have no issue when our players are carded. There will be loads of really bad decisions this season for every team that will incense managers. They need to learn not to hurl abuse at officials as a result.
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They need to be transparent with their accountability.

If O'Neil can't apologise and get his yellow card rescinded then why, on the surface, does it appear like they can make an apology and then move on immediately without any steps to be taken, at least showing us that it has?

edit - they've heard us!

www.youtube.com

Premier League officials dropped after Manchester United beat Wolves

► Subscribe to Sky Sports News: http://bit.ly/SkySportsNewsSubPGMOL's Jon Moss apologised after Wolves were not awarded what he described as a 'blatant' pena...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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fez said:
Big loss for City. They really miss him when he doesn't play. One of their massive get out of jail free cards when the team isn't playing so well.
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And they cant stick gungoden in

Thats massive, haaland will suffer most of his runs are picked out by kdb
 
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