Caporegime
We created more chances against Fulham than Chelsea did when they scored 6. We were not lucky at all.
Greenlizard0 Premier League Football Thread ** spoilers ** [31st Aug - 1st September 2024]
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Caporegime
Fulham was fine and Brighton could have easily been 3 points away against a good side. Arsenal couldn't beat them at home and they are in a different place to ourselves.
The side is still fragmented and is not yet at full strength/capacity.
Liverpool yesterday was at full strength and has had a proper pre season together. Their whole squad has played hundreds of games together.
Our team should be capable of getting into top 5 once the players start to gel and we get consistent game time together.
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I know I joke about all the time but I genuinely cannot believe you’re still coming out with the ‘if Shaw was fit’ line. He’s not and rarely is and even when he has been, Salah has had him on toast too. Shaw was playing in both the 5-0 and 7-0 games in case you’ve forgot.
Yes Utd had more possession than in previous games but game state often dictates that and with Utd behind and Liverpool happy to play on the break for the majority of the game that was always likely.
Utd’s biggest issues from last season are still there. They can’t create or score enough and they’re so easy to attack against. For all the talk of a good start to the game and it being an even game until we scored yesterday, it was all huff and puff with no quality or chances from Utd, where as you could see it was a matter of time before Liverpool scored. Utd just looked so fragile both at the back and in midfield. Martinez played a number of hospital balls into midfield that we very nearly capitalised on by us and Gravenbech schooled Mainoo, constantly drawing him in and then breaking past him (another day and Mainoo is off for 2 bookings in a matter of minutes). Even vs Fulham, Utd were just so open and on another day Fulham would have created (and probably scored) far more clear chances than they did.
Utd only created anything yesterday once the game was put to bed and we’d taken our foot off the pedal and they were just isolated chances out of nothing rather than a result of sustained pressure or a piece of good play. Had we been really ruthless yesterday we’d have scored another goal or two too.
I think it’s more than a bit optimistic to believe that Ugarte and Shaw are going to fix all your issues.
Caporegime
It is not just those players though is it. Zirkzee, De Ligt and Mazraoui had no pre season at all. That is 5 players who should all be starters and need bleeding in. 50% of our outfield players.
I agree 100% that Liverpool are lightyears ahead of United but I genuinely believe the future and the players we have brought in will work once they get the time together.
But that's entirely my point - ETH can't blend a lack of quality in his players, when the team he's able to put out is on paper as strong as Spurs or Villa (and certainly Brighton).
Caporegime
I wasn't really commenting on EtH particularly. If he doesn't sort it out, he will be gone at Christmas.
I'm also not sure how you can use the fact that Slots come into a well coached, settled side as an excuse. Who's fault is it that Utd aren't a well coached, settled side. ETH's been there for over 2 years, spent a **** load of money signing almost every player he's ever coached. When you've been given absolutely everything and had 2 years to create something but have nothing to show for it, that's on you.
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Again, I don't think I was saying much about United and EtH. It was quite literally just saying the little circle jerk around Slot is ridiculous. Wow, he took a very well settled and coached team and made minimal changes and still has a very well settled and coached team. We will see how he does in 2-3 years.
This is just ridiculous now. Last season it was injuries, now it’s that the players didn’t have a pre-season and aren’t fit. He’s already said Ugarte will take months to be fit and started comparing himself to Harry Potter.
Oh and they’re all clearly rubbish players who aren’t good enough - players the manager knows and wanted, and spent a fortune on. Clueless.
I don’t think another manager will walk in and have us playing amazing football and comfortably being in the top 4 right away, but it can be a hell of a lot better than this.
Looking at our next 6 or so league games, we’ll be doing well to win two of them.
Oh and they’re all clearly rubbish players who aren’t good enough - players the manager knows and wanted, and spent a fortune on. Clueless.
I don’t think another manager will walk in and have us playing amazing football and comfortably being in the top 4 right away, but it can be a hell of a lot better than this.
Looking at our next 6 or so league games, we’ll be doing well to win two of them.
You signed zirkzee on the 14th July for a start
Again, I don't think I was saying much about United and EtH. It was quite literally just saying the little circle jerk around Slot is ridiculous. Wow, he took a very well settled and coached team and made minimal changes and still has a very well settled and coached team. We will see how he does in 2-3 years.
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We will see if he wins anything.
I thought Liverpool were decent but not brilliant. What was brilliant was their chance taking. Three shots on target, three goals. Similar xG to United and marginally less possession.
Stats
This was not like some previous maulings where we set up not to lose and got battered. The score line is terrible but the game was closer than some are making out. Contrary to some views United were relatively convincing vs Fulham and deserved the win albeit it was hard work, the Brighton game was close also but for a crazy lapse at the end.
Vs Brighton
Honestly I've been watching United with gritted teeth and through my fingers all last season and this look better. You may laugh but we are creating more, conceding less chances, winning more turnovers despite some players clearly being off the pace.
Losing to Liverpool always hurts but let's see where we are in 6 weeks time.
Carragher's comments weren't about Slot though. There was no circle jerk, he wasn't bigging him up or making out he's done anything remarkable and even said that there's no guarantee that the changes made will be successful. His comments were about ETH and he used Slot as one example (he's used other managers before when making the same point) of a coach that's been able to put their stamp on a side (I think our changes in midfield are more than minimal btw) relatively quickly and yet after 2 years there's nothing at Utd.
You've made this pre-season point a couple of times and claimed our side had had a full pre-season. You might be surprised to find out that the majority of our side had nothing like a full pre-season. Ali, Trent, VVD, Robertson & Diaz featured in just 1 friendly, with Konate, Gravenberch and Mac Allister playing 45 minutes in one more match. It was only Salah and Szoboslai that had full pre seasons.
Caporegime
Agreed but they have played 100+ games together. That was more the point I was making.
Yesterday De Ligt, Mazraoui and Zirkzee have played a handful of times in this United team. They have had zero time to work on things with the team. Liverpool are a well oiled machine.
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Caporegime
He was injured.
Caporegime
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I hate to be that guy but Spurs or Villa haven't won as many trophies as ETH has recently. So perhaps he's not doing that bad?
Caporegime
Yeah, I'm not overly concerned at this point. My expectations aren't that high for the season and if EtH doesn't improve things he will be sacked. I think that we are putting the structure in place to be successful in 2-3 years and its not necessarily going to be pretty getting there.
I said before that maybe it's time your supporters accept that's all you are again (as you were historically), a cup side that will string the occasional top 2 or 3 finish in the league.
100+ is an exaggeration but yes they've played together a fair amount, albeit the defence and midfield are being asked to play somewhat differently, with Szobo & Gravenberch playing completely different positions than before. It's also a bit of an exaggeration to make out this is a totally new Utd side, completely alien to playing together - 8 of the 11 were from last season and 2 of the 3 that weren't, played under ETH before so should be accustomed to playing how he wants (if anybody knows how that is).
Caporegime
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Yeah I can't disagree with that.
But why should we accept that after £700m spend? We should expect more from the management especially the new management team - which in fairness is going to take some time to deliver. Real progress takes time, 3-5 years.
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Caporegime
Honestly what do you actually expect though?
The Liverpool team that was fielded yesterday was 100% full strength that was fighting on four fronts well into the season. Have played plenty of games together week in week out.
Yesterday we had De Ligt and Mazraoui starting for the first time together at Man United and De Ligt couldn't even make a full game as he isn't 100% fit yet. Zirkzee is a still young and has played a handful of games. It was pretty obvious the game was a bit big for him yesterday but I found he came into it as it went on.
What happened yesterday was on the face of it 100% predictable. Yet everyone seems totally shocked by it.
After the international break and it doesn't get going then we can talk but getting angry now just seems silly.
I suppose you accepted Liverpool being fairly average for the past quarter of a century?Ultimately it comes down to money and management of the club. Man City have no right to be any good ‘historically’ yet look at them.
I do think being an absolute giant of a club doesn’t help matters in this case though, it ramps up the pressure tenfold.
We’ll get there but I think INEOS have dropped a clanger keeping hold of ETH when they should have appointed their own man - they have everywhere else.