Greenlizard0 Premier League Football Thread ** spoilers ** [31st Aug - 1st September 2024]

[GarethSouthgate]

Manchester United: Erik ten Hag has club backing despite Liverpool loss

Manchester United manager Erik ten Hag has the backing of senior Old Trafford figures to deliver the sustained success the club craves, despite Sunday's home defeat to rivals Liverpool.

www.bbc.co.uk

Vote of confidence. Always a good sign 3 games into a new season.

They were asked questions, what were they supposed to do, not answer? Given what happened last year you'd be surprised if they weren't asked these questions.

 

[Robbo]

Surely this is now the fault of the can-do-no-wrong Ineos? Allowing him to buy his favourites.

His signings so far have been pretty rubbish, before INEOS were involved. I would have hoped that they vetted the new ones independently as ETH obviously can't be trusted.

They were asked questions, what were they supposed to do, not answer? Given what happened last year you'd be surprised if they weren't asked these questions.

Their answers are pretty standard, but it's interesting Ashworth and Berrada have added in the "it was decided prior to our arrival" bit

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I think we can keep going around in circles here, but we all know he's done a terrible job so far and won't be here much longer. We can argue about Luke Shaw transforming the team until the cows come home, it's not going to matter. Still, as always, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[adam cool dude]

But we're now into his 3rd season, buying more and more of his favourite players, and I'd argue things are worse than in his first season. How is that remotely acceptable.

I think you are the only person who can see what his tactical plan is, it seems a complete mess for the most part. It's hit and hope football on the counter attack, very little in the way of a plan.

All that said, while he's likely going to fail, we've got to let him at least have a few weeks with the new players and see where things go... Ugarte will have to be spectacular.

I will copy and paste this from reddit since I cba to explain it.

2 - Dynamic high press and rotation (out of possession)

This out of possession technique is somewhat of a hybrid between Liverpool under Klopp’s “Geggenpress” and City under Pep’s press. It uses dynamic MF’s and forwards with defensive attributes to press and create turnovers in the opposition’s own third of the pitch using “triggers” (targeted opposition players). It also controls the game out of possession by forcing the opposition to move where he wants them to avoiding high quality chances and effective build up.

Both these systems rely on a certain type of personnel to perform the said tasks effectively in each position. Due to the complexity of his systems, it’s very difficult to plug and play any old body in these slots.

It became quickly apparent that his style would not work in his first season so he took the cautious approach and went to counterattack. He finished 3rd with a decent points tally. Somewhat helped by Rashford having a purple patch and getting 30 goals in all comps. Last season was a complete wright-off due to injuries. You cannot have any sustained form with a gazillion different back 4 partnerships. I really cannot be bothered to debate it as you disagree with that opinion which is fine but that is mine. This season he has decided he wants to do what I have quoted in italics. I am pretty sure that is what he has told the new ownership too.

We have a lot of new players that have come in who have had no pre season with us (Ugarte, De Ligt, Mazraoui) and players that have had a preseason injured (Mount and Yoro) and players who are just injured and need to return (Hojlund, Shaw, Malacia). However all these players fit the profile of how ETH wants to play.

It is also funny when people say "but De Ligt and Mazraoui played under ETH" which is true but the system he played at Ajax was different.

The reason it looks a complete mess at the moment is because of a manner of things. (New arrivals who are not up to speed, personnel still to come back) It also means when it goes wrong it goes horribly wrong because of how high the players are. However from what I have seen in the first three games is that it will get better.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

His signings so far have been pretty rubbish, before INEOS were involved. I would have hoped that they vetted the new ones independently as ETH obviously can't be trusted.



Their answers are pretty standard, but it's interesting Ashworth and Berrada have added in the "it was decided prior to our arrival" bit

-

I think we can keep going around in circles here, but we all know he's done a terrible job so far and won't be here much longer. We can argue about Luke Shaw transforming the team until the cows come home, it's not going to matter. Still, as always, I hope I'm wrong.

I think we're screwed regardless of manager.

Onana isn't suddenly going to get better is he, for example?

 

[BaZ87]

I mean that opening paragraph you've copied from reddit Adam is absolutely hilarious. "Dynamic midfielders and forwards with defensive attributes" - somebody is taking the **** here, surely?

"It also controls the game out of possession by forcing the opposition to move where he wants them to avoiding high quality chances and effective build up." Yes, we've really seen how Utd have controlled the game out of possession and avoided conceding high quality chances

 

[Robbo]

So we're focusing on pressing, something we are one of the worst teams in the league at, despite adding in more and more ETH players who know 'his system'.

Sounds like pie in the sky stuff compared to what we've been seeing on the pitch for the past year or so.

How many more ETH signings do we need, 5 or 6? Maybe then we'll finish the season with a positive goal difference? I mean come on, this is insane.

 

[C Kent]

I will copy and paste this from reddit since I cba to explain it.

2 - Dynamic high press and rotation (out of possession)

This out of possession technique is somewhat of a hybrid between Liverpool under Klopp’s “Geggenpress” and City under Pep’s press. It uses dynamic MF’s and forwards with defensive attributes to press and create turnovers in the opposition’s own third of the pitch using “triggers” (targeted opposition players). It also controls the game out of possession by forcing the opposition to move where he wants them to avoiding high quality chances and effective build up.

Both these systems rely on a certain type of personnel to perform the said tasks effectively in each position. Due to the complexity of his systems, it’s very difficult to plug and play any old body in these slots.

It became quickly apparent that his style would not work in his first season so he took the cautious approach and went to counterattack. He finished 3rd with a decent points tally. Somewhat helped by Rashford having a purple patch and getting 30 goals in all comps. Last season was a complete wright-off due to injuries. You cannot have any sustained form with a gazillion different back 4 partnerships. I really cannot be bothered to debate it as you disagree with that opinion which is fine but that is mine. This season he has decided he wants to do what I have quoted in italics. I am pretty sure that is what he has told the new ownership too.

We have a lot of new players that have come in who have had no pre season with us (Ugarte, De Ligt, Mazraoui) and players that have had a preseason injured (Mount and Yoro) and players who are just injured and need to return (Hojlund, Shaw, Malacia). However all these players fit the profile of how ETH wants to play.

It is also funny when people say "but De Ligt and Mazraoui played under ETH" which is true but the system he played at Ajax was different.

The reason it looks a complete mess at the moment is because of a manner of things. (New arrivals who are not up to speed, personnel still to come back) It also means when it goes wrong it goes horribly wrong because of how high the players are. However from what I have seen in the first three games is that it will get better.

was that posted on reddit on April 1st by any chance?

 

[GarethSouthgate]

Should this talk be in the club thread @BaZ87

 

[GarethSouthgate]

I will copy and paste this from reddit since I cba to explain it.

2 - Dynamic high press and rotation (out of possession)

This out of possession technique is somewhat of a hybrid between Liverpool under Klopp’s “Geggenpress” and City under Pep’s press. It uses dynamic MF’s and forwards with defensive attributes to press and create turnovers in the opposition’s own third of the pitch using “triggers” (targeted opposition players). It also controls the game out of possession by forcing the opposition to move where he wants them to avoiding high quality chances and effective build up.

Both these systems rely on a certain type of personnel to perform the said tasks effectively in each position. Due to the complexity of his systems, it’s very difficult to plug and play any old body in these slots.

It became quickly apparent that his style would not work in his first season so he took the cautious approach and went to counterattack. He finished 3rd with a decent points tally. Somewhat helped by Rashford having a purple patch and getting 30 goals in all comps. Last season was a complete wright-off due to injuries. You cannot have any sustained form with a gazillion different back 4 partnerships. I really cannot be bothered to debate it as you disagree with that opinion which is fine but that is mine. This season he has decided he wants to do what I have quoted in italics. I am pretty sure that is what he has told the new ownership too.

We have a lot of new players that have come in who have had no pre season with us (Ugarte, De Ligt, Mazraoui) and players that have had a preseason injured (Mount and Yoro) and players who are just injured and need to return (Hojlund, Shaw, Malacia). However all these players fit the profile of how ETH wants to play.

It is also funny when people say "but De Ligt and Mazraoui played under ETH" which is true but the system he played at Ajax was different.

The reason it looks a complete mess at the moment is because of a manner of things. (New arrivals who are not up to speed, personnel still to come back) It also means when it goes wrong it goes horribly wrong because of how high the players are. However from what I have seen in the first three games is that it will get better.

Aren't we the ones that get turned over? Has happened in every match for how long now?

 

[BaZ87]

Should this talk be in the club thread @BaZ87

It's all in relation to what happened at the weekend and it's not as if there's going to be anything else discussed in this thread now so there's no issue there.

 

[C Kent]

Aren't we the ones that get turned over? Has happened in every match for how long now?

its utter nonsense, just some random reddit user that's taken different phrases and buzzwords from a couple of different sources - manager biographies/tactic websites/Carragher and Neville taking about the game on MNF - strung them together and claimed its what ten hag is aiming for. Laughable

 

[adam cool dude]

Aren't we the ones that get turned over? Has happened in every match for how long now?

Yes because we are not doing it correctly or the personnel is not there to do it (out injured or new signings) but ETH needs to stick to his plan because that's the way the team will play going forward and if you want to be a top team at some point you need to move away from compact couter attack style. Losing Mount against Brighton was actually a massive blow as he had the pre-season, has a great engine and knows what is required. What went wrong against Brighton believe it or not was Martinez got bossed by Danny Welbeck and left the space for them. For the most part the press worked really well against Fulham and Brighton. Agreed the game against Liverpool was a total mess but that is simply the level the Liverpool squad is compared to ours at the moment.

 

[adam cool dude]

its utter nonsense, just some random reddit user that's taken different phrases and buzzwords from a couple of different sources - manager biographies/tactic websites/Carragher and Neville taking about the game on MNF - strung them together and claimed its what ten hag is aiming for. Laughable

There are plenty of other sources of what ETH is trying to achieve. It is not that difficult to understand.

 

[C Kent]

There are plenty of other sources of what ETH is trying to achieve. It is not that difficult to understand.

It's total cack purely because you have the laziest midfielder out of possession on the planet as your focal point in midfield, he's goes by the name of Bruno Fernandes. I haven't seen him once press with any sort of intensity or purpose

 

[BaZ87]

There are plenty of other sources of what ETH is trying to achieve. It is not that difficult to understand.

Let's believe that this is what he's trying to achieve. After 2 years, 5 transfer windows and £650m spent, how close is he to achieving what you set out?

 

[adam cool dude]

Let's believe that this is what he's trying to achieve. After 2 years, 5 transfer windows and £650m spent, how close is he to achieving what you set out?

He hasn't tried it that's the truth. He played 4321 in his first season in a similar way to how he setup at Ajax and I think he wanted to transition to this new style last season but injuries put an end to that.

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes back to 4321 after the break however as the game against Liverpool was really bad and unless he gets results the media will go after him.

 

[BaZ87]

He hasn't tried it that's the truth.

So it's clear for everybody to see what ETH is trying to doing but at the same time you're telling us he's not tried it You are taking the Michael now Adam.

 

[CliffyG]

Hahaha unbelievable.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Sad to see what the demise of United has done to Adam's brain, he's like the embodiment of Paddy Power fan denial

 

[adam cool dude]

So it's clear for everybody to see what ETH is trying to doing but at the same time you're telling us he's not tried it You are taking the Michael now Adam.

I am not sure if you are not understanding what I am trying to convey but ETH is making us play this season in a different way to what we have played in seasons before. Tbh I think I am done here now as it seems people just want to be "smart" and banter instead of trying to have a conversation.

You can look it up all over the internet. It is there to see but just listen to the media buzzwords "ETH haz no tacticz"

This one also discusses how crucial having a left footed left back is.