Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [1st - 2nd September 2012]

I thought Puncheon was your best player today. Looked very dangerous....been thinking of fitting him in to my FF team, seems like he could get a few assists, and he is very cheap.

He's so wonderfully hit and miss :p

Scored a quality goal on tuesday against Stevenage and decided to be a world class player today (till he did his typical punch of do all the hard work then shoot stupidly once or twice).

Some weeks he is useless! Doesn't look up, doesn't run the ball and shoots at our stadium tvs (we have new ones and if he breaks them again he's out).

Wouldn't stick him in the fantasy team just because games like today aren't anything close to a guarantee
 
Since when was the acid test of how you know you've made it as a footballer the do armchair fans at other clubs want you to sign for them?

Is there a United supporter on the planet that looks at Gareth Barry and wishes we had a bit of that? I'm sure the City supporters who see him week in week out appreciate what he does for them though.

When you have players liked Xabi Alonso talking in glowing terms to the press about lowely Michael Carrick from up north I think it's proof he does more than the usual naive football supporter can appreciate

I happen to think, along with most English people I would imagine, that Gareth Barry is also pretty ****. I just don't see the point in a midfielder who is physically weak, slow, has a poor goalscoring record and rarely assists either. What's his job in the midfield? If he's supposed to protect the back four, surely he needs to be prepared to get stuck in or at least be able to anticipate and make interceptions? He fails as an attacking midfielder too, so in my opinion he's rather redundant.

I've already pointed out that I am annoyed at Fergie for not improving our midfield beyond bringing Kagawa in (who I'm sure will be a good addition), but Carrick is my example of a player we don't want or need if we are to really regain our dominance in English football. It just so happens that Carrick, as a deeper lying midfielder, plays in the position I am arguing we need to strengthen to be more competitive.
 
Doesn't look like any amount of explanation will help, I think we're just factually wrong for thinking Carrick isn't an especially good player :p.
 
hansen picking johnson out on how far forward he gets. is this a prominent part of his game? they showed 3 occassions then, when he was the furthest man forward.
 
hansen picking johnson out on how far forward he gets. is this a prominent part of his game? they showed 3 occassions then, when he was the furthest man forward.

It's weird some times he does some times he doesn't. But ignore his attacking skills, he's a woeful defender if he's in his own half or on the touch line the other end of the pitch like he was at one point!
 
Carrick: 126 passes attempted, 115 completed = 91% success rate

Just leave that here for someone else.

1. That doesn't take into account the numerous times he was caught in possession and lost the ball

2. For where he is it should be much higher. He rarely ventured into the other half and most of his game is picking the ball up from the defenders and either passing it back or passing it sideways to the full backs/wingers.
 
Carrick and kagawa and Cleverly had pretty poor games between themselves.

That scholes is still our best midfielder shows how lacking we are. We need to find the new scholes and fast, because without him:/ bad things might happen.
 
Saints vs MU had the worst kicking from keepers I've ever seen in a Premiership match. Lindegaard was appaling and then Davis telegraphed a couple to setup MU attacks.

As for the MU team selection I wasn't convinced, Valencia for me works best as a genuine wide player rather than part of a three, and likewise Wellbeck looks rather an ill-fit on the left.

Moving on to the Arsenal game I am not convinced by McNulty's assessment (in a match report, not personal column) that Liverpool were "woefully poor". Arsenal looked more dangerous around the box but Liverpool were at least holding their own in terms of possession without really looking like scoring. I'd say "mediocre" would have been a fairer assessment.
 
Carrick and kagawa and Cleverly had pretty poor games between themselves.

That scholes is still our best midfielder shows how lacking we are. We need to find the new scholes and fast, because without him:/ bad things might happen.


No it doesn't, it just shows what an unbelievable player Paul Scholes is.
 
hansen picking johnson out on how far forward he gets. is this a prominent part of his game? they showed 3 occassions then, when he was the furthest man forward.
We play with a pretty narrow midfield so the fullbacks are expected to get forward. When that happens the defenders are meant to move over and the spare midfielder is meant to drop back. Without Lucas it doesn't really happen.
 
No it doesn't, it just shows what an unbelievable player Paul Scholes is.

I don't think people realise that players like Scholes don't just drop off trees.

None of the players that people have wanted us to sign even come close to Paul Scholes anyway.
 
We play with a pretty narrow midfield so the fullbacks are expected to get forward. When that happens the defenders are meant to move over and the spare midfielder is meant to drop back. Without Lucas it doesn't really happen.

I think that was the case more last season than now. In possession we're almost playing a 2-5-3 with both full backs pushed right up field. If you look at Arsenal's first goal today; when Reina gets the ball, our CB's split to either side of the penalty area and both fullbacks push right up the pitch and we were far too open when Gerrard gave the ball away.

I mentioned it in my post after the game and I know Rodgers also mentioned it post-game, our ball retention in certain situations (when we're over exposed at the back) and our recovery when we lose the ball needs to improve.

In one way it might be a blessing in disguise to get some of our harder matches out of the way while the team's still coming to terms with playing how Rodgers wants us to play.
 
I've already pointed out that I am annoyed at Fergie for not improving our midfield beyond bringing Kagawa in (who I'm sure will be a good addition), but Carrick is my example of a player we don't want or need if we are to really regain our dominance in English football. It just so happens that Carrick, as a deeper lying midfielder, plays in the position I am arguing we need to strengthen to be more competitive.

What a lot of fans like yourself who would appear on the face of it to be well into the short term 'lets spend our way to success' it's just not Fergie's style.

In terms of central midfielders we have Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson, Cleverly and Scholes. All decent enough players in their own rate. Ferguson is deeply loyal to his players and did you really expect him to scrap two or three of them in order to sign this defensive midfield god like creature people keep going on about.

Shamikebab said:
1. That doesn't take into account the numerous times he was caught in possession and lost the ball

Yet he still had a 90% + pass completion rate. If he wasn't caught in possession then what 95%, Andrex at the ready

Shamikebab said:
2. For where he is it should be much higher. He rarely ventured into the other half and most of his game is picking the ball up from the defenders and either passing it back or passing it sideways to the full backs/wingers.

I am no football expert but I do have the benefit of being a qualified coach and been to quite a few FA coaching sessions. According to the sessions I have been to thats exactly how defensive midfielders get coached, short passes to the CB or passing it wide to the FB allowing them to push up. Job done, well done Carrick.

If we play high up the pitch with Rafael and Evra almost as RM & LM this allows Valencia and Wellbeck to push on you can't do this without somebody playing the short passes to keep the ball.

The days of the complete midfielder who is box to box could put a tackle in on the edge of the box and ping a 70 yard pass into the opposition corner and then sprint up to the edge of the opposition box to hit a 20 yard volley in return are gone - fact. They died with the end of 4-4-2 era when there was no such thing as Defensive Midfielders or Attacking Midfielders. The last box to box midfielder in that role was Steven Gerrard and even his powers are now on the decline.
 
Carrick and kagawa and Cleverly had pretty poor games between themselves.

That scholes is still our best midfielder shows how lacking we are. We need to find the new scholes and fast, because without him:/ bad things might happen.

New scholes? Impossible.

Remember, Scholes wasn't what he is today in his first game at UTD. We have lots of talent in Clev and Kagawa. Kagawa has already shown what he can do in Germany... Kag and Clev are still only 23. Scholes has played a few more games then them.

Nothing to worry about on our creative midfield options.
 
Last edited:
I am no football expert but I do have the benefit of being a qualified coach and been to quite a few FA coaching sessions. According to the sessions I have been to thats exactly how defensive midfielders get coached, short passes to the CB or passing it wide to the FB allowing them to push up. Job done, well done Carrick.

So just to get this straight, you really think he played well?
 
What a lot of fans like yourself who would appear on the face of it to be well into the short term 'lets spend our way to success' it's just not Fergie's style.

In terms of central midfielders we have Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson, Cleverly and Scholes. All decent enough players in their own rate. Ferguson is deeply loyal to his players and did you really expect him to scrap two or three of them in order to sign this defensive midfield god like creature people keep going on about.

Yet he still had a 90% + pass completion rate. If he wasn't caught in possession then what 95%, Andrex at the ready


I am no football expert but I do have the benefit of being a qualified coach and been to quite a few FA coaching sessions. According to the sessions I have been to thats exactly how defensive midfielders get coached, short passes to the CB or passing it wide to the FB allowing them to push up. Job done, well done Carrick.

Anderson isn't decent, neither is fletcher, neither is Carrick, Cleverley could be very good. See this is where arguments break down into, "but you guys just want Fergie to spend for the short term", Arsenal fans constantly do this. Its BS, spending 80k a week on Welbeck IS short term thinking, spending anything on Anderson is short term thinking. Getting shot of Anderson because you KNOW he isn't good enough and bringing in 5 young players for the same overall wage, maybe even less in transfer fee's and seeing if any turn out to be exactly what you need is an incredibly viable, CHEAPER option. Obviously the better the manager supposedly the better their ability to spot talent.

Cesc wasn't expensive, yet he was playing within months and already was one of the best players in the league. Continuing with players you know will never be good enough to be part of the best team in Europe isn't the cheap or long term option its short term and expensive.

I've said countless times for Arsenal I'd take trying and failing over the status quo with players I know aren't good enough. Trying has the possibility to succeed... sticking with the players who aren't good enough has no possibility of winning. I can fully accept failure, I can accept buying a player and having them turn out bad.... I can't under any circumstances accept buying a player, them turning out to be bad, and then giving them new contract after new contract while settling for someone not good enough. Trying and failing is accepting you need to do better, settling for someone not good enough is accepting defeat basically.

For Arsenal I'd take firing 90% of the youth squad and all the dead wood, 3-4 years mid table then having a fresh crop of good players to challenge with than sitting in 4th, knowing you can't get 1st, happy with the money rolling in with players who aren't fit to wear the shirt.

Anderson has never at any stage looked good enough and barely gets played as a consequence, how many youth players would Andersons wages in the past 5 years have funded the purchase and testing of, 20-30-50?

Evra came good, was good for many years and is now crap, I can understand loyalty in not getting rid but not getting competant competition wasn't good, but Anderson was crap when he joined, crap the whole time since and still crap and this is on top of supposedly poor attitude, poor fitness, etc, etc. Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal should all be so much better than they are for the money they spend on wages/transfers. City have a mostly very good squad and frankly should be embarrassed the league was so close.


Last two things 95% pass completion means NOTHING, its not andrex worthy. 10% pass completion rate with 10 out of 100 passes all leading to goals, or tearing teams apart is better than 95 out of 100 passes complete but all back to the keeper. Pass completion is one stat OF MANY that should be used to determine if a player played well, on its own its absolutely and entirely meaningless.

Cesc might miss a pass because he made an epic attempt to thread the needle and missed by inches a pass that could have created a goal, another player might make a truly horrendous 40 yard overhit throughball that never had a chance of getting to one of his own players, that stat counts the same against both players, 1 missed pass. Pass completition means nothing on its own, no subjective stat means anything on its own either. Giroud won a crap load of aerial duels yesterday, something people couldn't get over for Carroll last year.... what did Giroud create from said headers, nothing.

As for how the FA teach DM's, the FA don't know how to coach and that is the fundamental problem with lack of quality in English football. Find a dutch/French/Spanish/German/Brazillian "DM" who doesn't know how to shoot, get forwards, pass forwards, have good control, make technically excellent tackles.... you won't find many. Passing sideways because its the right option is an ENTIRELY different thing to be incapable of doing anything else but passing sideways ;)
 
Last edited:
As for the MU team selection I wasn't convinced, Valencia for me works best as a genuine wide player rather than part of a three, and likewise Wellbeck looks rather an ill-fit on the left.
.

well he didnt do to badly either, setting up one goal for rvp and another for Rio's header which caused the rebound for RVP's 2nd

Welbeck is a waste of space most of the time imo

Remember, Scholes wasn't what he is today in his first game at UTD. We have lots of talent in Clev and Kagawa. Kagawa has already shown what he can do in Germany... Kag and Clev are still only 23. Scholes has played a few more games then them.
.

totally agree with this

firstly is Anderson actually worth his space in the squad , the last 4 years at the very least imo shows a big question mark to that, if not a flat No! He should have been sold in the summer. 2ndly the question mark about fletcher - yes he has come through two practice games (well done to him, Im really glad to hear that) - on the other hand, was he really good enough to start with , its probably hsi heritage that has kept him in the side this long (before his illness). It would be wrong to get rid of him currently (as it would have during the worst of his illness over the last year or so) but his illness is esasperating a situation already present in the side.

Utd need a combative central midfielder (rather than so much a creative type) preferably with very good close control. Maybe Utd wouldnt have bought Kagawa if they knew they would have been getting RvP anyway, but imo we need him as well as Cleverley anyway (and they are both worthy of their places in the team despite having difficulties yesterday). The little amount (£5-10m) that we could get for Anderson would get someone who at least would cover this option even if we arent buying a ready made player


Utd fluked yesterday without a doubt, they probably deserved a draw (and Saints definitely deserved a point yesterday as much as they did on the first day of the season against City), but at the end of the day Utd did have a lot of very close shots even without the atrocious penalty
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom