Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [29th October - 2nd November 2011]

Robert1986 said:
Its not that he is worth that much is just how much Newcastle wanted for him since he was their best player and all the interest from other clubs for Carrol.... and not to mention it was a dead line day deal. Those always go for more.
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All of that is very true. All of that is also fairly irrelevant too!

He cost £35m regarless of circumstances. All the laughter at the £50m Torres deal masks the fact that the majority of the money was spent on a player who was never worth £35m. Luckily for Carroll (who i dont mind too much as a player) the embarrassment of his fee has been overshadowed by Torres in a chelsea shirt.

You pay extra for a deadline day deal based on what the player can give you between Jan and the summer.......
 
Purdy said:
I think at the moment 18million would still be a bit much, lets see how he turns out and he might be worth close to the 30 million, then again everyone neglects it was all relative to what we valued a striker who wanted out at who hasn't exactly been prolific seen leaving.
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No it wasnt.
 
Well another game, another 3 points and 3 more goals, but we were very far from our best today. Didn't help witnessing one of the worst refereeing performances I've seen in a long time. At one point Balotelli got a foul against him for having the audacity to bend down when someone tried to leapfrog him from behind. The penalty decision was probably the only major thing he got right, and even that came from a free kick that shouldn't have existed as the same thing happened to Yaya 10 seconds earlier that wasn't given. Even the beeb commentary said something along the lines of not knowing what a foul was any more, and that the ref had been bought. Tainted what should have been a good game as Wolves were giving it a better go than a lot of teams have at our place this season. I think Mick is ace too, would love to see them stay up.

Pluses were defending very well when going down to ten men and still managing to attack and even getting a 3rd goal. Bar the parry I'm not sure Hart had anything to do all game. Would have loved to see the look on Atwells face when Johnson rifled in that 3rd. Aguero missed a sitter but was directly responsible for Dzeko's, otherwise had a great game. Funny watching him drag defenders everywhere as they expect him to shoot. Tee'd up Mario for what should have been at least a shot on target from him too.

Not what you'd call a vintage performance but despite Atwell doing his best to scupper us we stuck at it and ground it out. Still 5 points clear, can't complain :) Probably a bit spoilt from the Chelsea Arsenal game earlier tbh, far too much fun.
 
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No it wasnt.
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Yeah, it was.

placeholder said:
All of that is very true. All of that is also fairly irrelevant too!

He cost £35m regarless of circumstances. All the laughter at the £50m Torres deal masks the fact that the majority of the money was spent on a player who was never worth £35m. Luckily for Carroll (who i dont mind too much as a player) the embarrassment of his fee has been overshadowed by Torres in a chelsea shirt.

You pay extra for a deadline day deal based on what the player can give you between Jan and the summer.......
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Or to beat off the interest of the summer bids, like spuds high bid for him
 
Adrianr said:
Well another game, another 3 points and 3 more goals, but we were very far from our best today. Didn't help witnessing one of the worst refereeing performances I've seen in a long time. At one point Balotelli got a foul against him for having the audacity to bend down when someone tried to leapfrog him from behind. The penalty decision was probably the only major thing he got right, and even that came from a free kick that shouldn't have existed as the same thing happened to Yaya 10 seconds earlier that wasn't given. Even the beeb commentary said something along the lines of not knowing what a foul was any more, and that the ref had been bought. Tainted what should have been a good game as Wolves were giving it a better go than a lot of teams have at our place this season. I think Mick is ace too, would love to see them stay up.

Pluses were defending very well when going down to ten men and still managing to attack and even getting a 3rd goal. Bar the parry I'm not sure Hart had anything to do all game. Would have loved to see the look on Atwells face when Johnson rifled in that 3rd. Aguero missed a sitter but was directly responsible for Dzeko's, otherwise had a great game. Funny watching him drag defenders everywhere as they expect him to shoot. Tee'd up Mario for what should have been at least a shot on target from him too.

Not what you'd call a vintage performance but despite Atwell doing his best to scupper us we stuck at it and ground it out. Still 5 points clear, can't complain :) Probably a bit spoilt from the Chelsea Arsenal game earlier tbh, far too much fun.
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In some ways your win today is actually more of a worry to me than the 6-1 last week.

Today could easily have ended in a draw but you eeked out the result. The more times you do that the more chance you have of winning the league IMO.
 
Purdy said:
Yeah, it was.
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Getting £50m for Torres and his record doesnt, under any circumstances make Carroll a good signing at £35m.

It doesnt matter about net cost or anything else.

Liverpool had £50m banked from Torres in a season where the CL had gone. They werent getting into Europe and they werent getting relegated. There was no need to buy other than for a statement of intent from the new owners. The problem is that Statement of intent was to buy an average striker for a premium price.

Are you really saying it was good business to pay £35m in Jan in case Spurs offered £40m in the summer or would have got him for £30m on deadline day?!

The bottom line is that Liverpool had £50m to do with as they pleased and spend on anything. The best use of that money was deemed to be Andy Carroll and Charlie Adam.
 
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In some ways your win today is actually more of a worry to me than the 6-1 last week.

Today could easily have ended in a draw but you eeked out the result. The more times you do that the more chance you have of winning the league IMO.
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Very true. What has always let Arsenal down in previous seasons, able to smash teams but not grind out results like City did today.
 
BaZ87 said:
Are you going to post the exact same thing every week for the rest of the season?

It's really simple; we wanted Carroll, Spurs had already bid £25m and we had £50m sitting in our pocket = Newcastle demand crazy money.
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I will if you will.

We signed Michael Owen in the same window that we sold Ronaldo for £80m. That doesnt mean that spending £50m on Owen would have been good business based on what we got for Ronaldo.

In the scenario you paint, Carroll should have gone to spurs on the basis that he wasnt worth £25m regardless of your bank balance.
 
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I will if you will.

We signed Michael Owen in the same window that we sold Ronaldo for £80m. That doesnt mean that spending £50m on Owen would have been good business based on what we got for Ronaldo.

In the scenario you paint, Carroll should have gone to spurs on the basis that he wasnt worth £25m regardless of your bank balance.
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I'm not sure wtf you're talking about now but you're failing to grasp something incredibly simple. Nobody is claiming Carroll is or was worth £35m however he was the player we wanted and we paid what it took to get him. The fact that it took £35m was due to circumstance; we had just received £50m for Torres and Newcastle had received a £25m bid from Spurs.

We'd have been forced to overpay on whoever we bought. Would it have been better to go out and buy somebody we didn't want (but still had to have paid ott) because he'd have been less than Carroll?

This is the part of the debate where you say something along the lines of 'oh, if you specifically wanted him then it's more understandable', and then you'll bring it up again next week.
 
BaZ87 said:
I'm not sure wtf you're talking about now but you're failing to grasp something incredibly simple. Nobody is claiming Carroll is or was worth £35m however he was the player we wanted and we paid what it took to get him. The fact that it took £35m was due to circumstance; we had just received £50m for Torres and Newcastle had received a £25m bid from Spurs.

We'd have been forced to overpay on whoever we bought. Would it have been better to go out and buy somebody we didn't want (but still had to have paid ott) because he'd have been less than Carroll?

This is the part of the debate where you say something along the lines of 'oh, if you specifically wanted him then it's more understandable', and then you'll bring it up again next week.
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Its not.

Carrolls value isnt changed by Torres.

Andy Carroll is a decent striker who was worth £X

Torres was a great striker worth £Y

I accept you wanted Carroll but in no way shape or form does selling Torres make Carroll suddenly worth £35m.

Your bank balance doesnt make Carroll a better striker. It just makes you bad negotiators. At the point Spurs bid £25m you should be saying "ok, too much".
 
red11 said:
I don't know why fans debate transfer fees with other fans, it's not our money and we don't set the transfer fee. :p
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Because it has a relative worth.

Dalgish has spent some serious money at Liverpool and on the whole i (as a Utd fan) think he has bought decent players so i'll say so. At the same time the £35m on Carroll is a huge white elephant so i think its ok to say that too.
 
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Jesus ****ing Christ!

Carroll's value isn't effected by how much Torres was worth, Carroll's value was effected by how much money Liverpool had though. It's not hard to understand. If you have something that somebody wants and you know they're loaded, you ask for more than you normally would. Throw in Spurs's bid and Newcastle were in an even stronger position.

We could have said '**** that, he's not worth £35m' and gone for our 2nd choice target (and still been forced to pay a premium) or bite the bullet and paid to get the player we wanted. We chose to bite the bullet.
 
I'm a Man Utd fan too and to be honest I couldn't give a flying hoot what Liverpool spend on a player. It's not something that keeps me up at nights.
 
BaZ87 said:
Jesus ****ing Christ!

Carroll's value isn't effected by how much Torres was worth, Carroll's value was effected by how much money Liverpool had though. It's not hard to understand. If you have something that somebody wants and you know they're loaded, you ask for more than you normally would. Throw in Spurs's bid and Newcastle were in an even stronger position.

We could have said '**** that, he's not worth £35m' and gone for our 2nd choice target (and still been forced to pay a premium) or bite the bullet and paid to get the player we wanted. We chose to bite the bullet.
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It doesnt make it right though.

The reality is you paid a premium price for an average at best striker.

You bit the bullet but at what cost? Would you have bitten the same bullet for Ngog a couple of years previous?

Why were we not charged £50m for Player X last summer given that we had that £50m war-chest to spend?
 
What a crazy match at Chelsea! Shocking defending all around, shocking attacking, super finishing and a few great saves!
 
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