Caporegime
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He's good but he shouldn't be starting so many games imo.
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [5th - 6th November 2011]
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Caporegime
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Yes, he gets goals and had one great pass for an assist earlier this season, but his overall game is meh at best. At Sunderland he was crap fora while, got a couple half decent goals, then ended up with 4-5 in 6-7 games, then got injured and was pretty meh when he came back. Frankly before Sunderland he looked woeful, and since then, again in games the TEAM is playing brilliantly he gets chances and scored a few goals even a nice couple goals, in games the team isn't brilliant, Welbeck is nowhere, same goes for Hernandez.
They'll get goals when the team is playing well, when the team needs someone up top to do something themselves or bring others into the game, those two aren't going to cut it, and haven't cut it.
There's nothing wrong with being a tap in artist, in fact they can be a great part of a great team but for me with Utd having one great winger, one in and out of form winger(nani) who really has only had a single great half season to date, and Valencia, mostly crap, and the midfield they have lacking creativity/quality very badly then you can't really cope with a tap in artist up top.
IE have Fabregas in midfield with a decent midfield/offense around them and a tap in up top would work great, have Fletcher and Carrick and you need creativity and frankly so much more than someone like Hernandez offers.
Cleverley is a significantly better player than Welbeck already, so is Jones/Smalling, Welbeck has shown more than Macheda to date though.
Nani one great season?
Saying for arguments sake we're half way through this season and his resurgence started during the second half of the 09/10 season (which is did) then you're looking a 2 years of very good Nani performances
Now Young is at United I would have thought it's become blatantly obvious now (as if it wasn't already) that Nani is by far the superior of the two
As for Welbeck he's been in the team on merit due to Hernandez's slow start to the season (due to no pre-season) as I've said over and over again though it wont be long before it's Rooney & Chicharito up front week in week out as per the tail end of last season just taking the later a bit of time to find his sharpness
EDIT: Especially for DM Nani's stats since 23rd January 2010
79 Appearances
36 Assists
20 Goals
So in 79 games (not all of which he's started) he's been responsible for 56 goals. Lawyered!!
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I guess you are still completely blind to the games in which he completely disappears (which has already happened a few of times this season - let alone the last two years)
There are times when he is invisible along with a lot of other Utd players, and I dont hold him responsible for the whole team by any means - but he isnt as great or as consistant as you are trying to make out either.
When he is great - he can be fabulous , but just as equally he can disappear quicker than a Guinness in an Irish pub lol
Bit harsh comparing the two just yet - at least let Young have at least a season at Utd before comapring him with Nani
I would guess a lot more play tends to go down the right than the left in the first place (when both are on the field) which could sqew any fair comparisions
EDIT: Especially for DM Nani's stats since 23rd January 2010
79 Appearances
36 Assists
20 Goals
So in 79 games (not all of which he's started) he's been responsible for 56 goals. Lawyered!!
How many shots? (wasted or otherwise)
doesnt allow for how much work the goal scorer had to do for the assists
Those stats make him sound a lot more consistant than he actually is ( just like Berbatov, 5 goals in 5 games sounds excellent for a statistician but it doesnt allow for the 4 games he doesnt come close to scoring in for 360 minutes of play to balance out the 5 goals vs one team /one game)
The stats prove that even if Nani's having a poor game he's still liable to lay on an assist or score a goal
I'm not getting into the whole (quite frankly stupid argument) once again of how many shots = goals with Nani or that he doesn't have a 99% pass completion rate, we've been there and worn the T-Shirt before
I'm not getting into the whole (quite frankly stupid argument) once again of how many shots = goals with Nani or that he doesn't have a 99% pass completion rate, we've been there and worn the T-Shirt before
Caporegime
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Its funny because, most of the Man U lot were saying all last summer that Nani is meh, inconsistent and should be getting his final chance, then last season he had a great season, except for the fact that the second half was significantly less good.
As for Young being easily better, so far Young has 2 goals, 5 assists in 8 starts. Nani has 3 goals, 3 assists, in 10 starts and its been clear as day for anyone who wasn't clearly anti Young before he joined the club, that he's been by FAR the better player. This is a guy who offers a huge amount of defensive cover,
As for your stats, hmmm shall we say.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/67716/cc/5739
from here it would seem he got 8 goals 9 assists in 09/10, 13 goals 17 assists in 10/11, and 9 goals 7 assists so far this season. In total I see 103 STARTS as well as 23 sub appearances.
So that's to as far as I can tell 126 appearances, 30 goals , 33 assists. of that 09/10 season 3 goals and 3 assists I believe were before this random 23 Jan date you decided to go with.
Basically I have no clue where your stats come from, because including his international performances and an extra half season, he still has 3 less assists than you state.
Without portugal appearances we're at 103 appearances 29 assists, 24 goals.
Young is 115 appearances in the same time 39 assists and 25 goals.
Without his England appearances he's on 100 appearances 20 goals, 35 assists.
Considering the vast majority of that was with Villa rather than the best team in the UK. Factoring his defensive work rate, the amount of chances he's created for others(objectively with no stats FAR more than Nani this season) he IS the better player.
As for Young being easily better, so far Young has 2 goals, 5 assists in 8 starts. Nani has 3 goals, 3 assists, in 10 starts and its been clear as day for anyone who wasn't clearly anti Young before he joined the club, that he's been by FAR the better player. This is a guy who offers a huge amount of defensive cover,
As for your stats, hmmm shall we say.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/67716/cc/5739
from here it would seem he got 8 goals 9 assists in 09/10, 13 goals 17 assists in 10/11, and 9 goals 7 assists so far this season. In total I see 103 STARTS as well as 23 sub appearances.
So that's to as far as I can tell 126 appearances, 30 goals , 33 assists. of that 09/10 season 3 goals and 3 assists I believe were before this random 23 Jan date you decided to go with.
Basically I have no clue where your stats come from, because including his international performances and an extra half season, he still has 3 less assists than you state.
Without portugal appearances we're at 103 appearances 29 assists, 24 goals.
Young is 115 appearances in the same time 39 assists and 25 goals.
Without his England appearances he's on 100 appearances 20 goals, 35 assists.
Considering the vast majority of that was with Villa rather than the best team in the UK. Factoring his defensive work rate, the amount of chances he's created for others(objectively with no stats FAR more than Nani this season) he IS the better player.
Caporegime
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Lets take just this season, Nani has appeared 27 times and been involved in 16 goals, 9 goals 7 assists.
Young has appeared 21 times, he has been involved in 18 goals, 7 goals, 11 assists.
So Young is quite clearly, with the same players around him, more likely to get a goal or an assist, statistically actually very much more likely to AND he'll put in an immense amount of work defensively which Nani doesn't and will create more chances for others than Nani.
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Caporegime
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OH **** YOU FRANK. You made DM post pages of meaningless stats 
We're not even at the weekend and this thread has been derailed already by the usual meaningless crap.
We're not even at the weekend and this thread has been derailed already by the usual meaningless crap.
Caporegime
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You do realise those numbers are for EVERY SINGLE GAME they've played for club and country, and then I did them without national side as well.
Is this yet another one of those times when someone makes a bold claim, is shown to be incorrect then randomly claims I ignore some minor stat that would make no difference.
Those stats include every single competition Utd have played in, your stats clearly did not. You claim 79 appearances while Nani has played closer to 40 more games in that time frame than you suggest....... who is leaving out competitions because it CERTAINLY isn't me.
People keep randomly making some stupid claim about what I choose to include or not. Every claim is always wrong, as yours is utterly wrong in every way possible. The few times I ALSO include premiership only stats will be if it includes a player who doesn't play for his national side nor in europe against a player who does both, as it gives a more direct comparison between two players who played the same teams, I very rarely if ever don't mention or include the "other" players stats outside of the league, infact I very very rarely include only premier league stats, pretending they aren't useful comparisons is almost as stupid as making a completely stupid claim in the first place. The premier league doesn't change significantly in the teams included, nor who is good/bad from one year to the next, the champions league you can face 3, or 6-7 entirely different teams every single season. For instance Nani could not score a single goal in the CL but have played 6-7 of the best teams in Europe while, Ronaldo could have scored 32 goals, and played 6-7 of the worst teams in Europe, would that be a fair comparison? Yet how Nani and Nasri do, against the exact same teams in the league isn't a useful comparison?
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So not only do your stats not include football outside of the Premiership they're also made up? MUFC haven't played 27 games this season so how exactly could Young and or Nani have played in them?
Caporegime
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Wow, you really are utterly idiotic, firstly where did I state MUFC< secondly that includes every single competition Utd have played in, no where in this thread have I put out a SINGLE stat that includes only premiership numbers. Not one, find one, click on the LINK TO THE STATS that I gave, it lists every single competition and stat you need.
Look I'll include it for you AGAIN.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/player/_/id/67716/cc/5739
Thats 8 appearances for Portugal, and 19 for Utd, in each and every competition they've played in. You have posted incorrect stats, I haven't, YOU have made wild claims about premiership only numbers, there isn't even a hint of my numbers suggesting that especially as you posted significantly LOWER appearance numbers than I did, could you care to explain how MORE appearances would likely mean I was including LESS competitions and games than you were?
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From January 25th 2010 to the end of that season Nani made 19 appearances
In the 2010/2011 season Nani made a total of 49 appearances
So far in the 2011/2012 season Nani has made 11 appearances
19 + 49 + 11 = well stone me if that doesn't equal 79 appearances in total
You said take this seasons stats Young and Nani both play for MUFC and have done all season.
Who's the idiot exactly?
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Caporegime
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Yes, ignoring alone that Nani has already started 10 games in Prem and UCL alone, and made 2 sub appearances in both..... or lets do some quick math... yes thats 14 appearances in just two competitions this season......
He's also played in the community shield and 3 appearances in the world football challenge.
Any single way you look at it, your numbers are wrong. he also from the 25th jan 2010, only played in 18 games. He played 50 games in the season inbetween excluding national games.
You also, despite being asked why, randomly started on the 25th Jan, even though there were games on the 23rd and the 27th, you cut off half a season because, it suited you and his stats were slightly less good before then.
I know, I'll disregard 30% of Young's appearances, and include all the ones he scored in, ok?
Caporegime
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Sorry, they both play for Utd, but where did I say the stats were only for Utd, you quoted me..... not saying Utd, and then......... proceeded to confirm that you randomly assumed I meant Utd, which I didn't and you've ignored the part where you repeatedly accused me of leaving out competitions....... which I didn't and included ones you didn't include.
Who's the idiot? Well seeing as even after having it pointed out to you, having you quote your mistake, then making the same mistake again...... you?
Here's a hint, I use all stats, or provide a very good reason for not doing so and usually still include the "all" stats as well for comparison.
Because you WANT Nani to be the better player, you're randomly excluded a half season that makes his stats worse, and got his stats wrong.
You weren't far off with your appearances.....if you exclude half a season and many other things but your numbers are still completely wrong.
Without National appearances, but still with 25% more games than you listed, he got a lot less assists and MORE goals than you said, because your stats are wrong.
In the time frame YOU have said, without national sides, he has scored 21 goals and has 25 assists, yet you say he has 36 assists for the same time frame(you still got the appearances incorrect for the time frame you've said but whatever, that's at least close enough).
Basically I can't find a single way in which your stats are correct without some serious creative accounting, leaving out several competitions, arbitrarily starting half way through a season and errm, just not counting correctly.
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Firstly I'm not taking into effect International football, I dont see how that is relevant to club football if for no other reason the player is playing with completely different set of team mates
On this season alone I stand corrected my stats were counting starts only so you're correct in total this season only he does have 14 appearances (2 sub appearances in the league against Liverpool and Everton and 2 sub appearances in the UCL 1 against Benfica and another against Basel when coincidently he got one of his assists)
Thirdly I have it from 2 sources he made 49 club appearances in the 2010/2011 season
Lastly why did I chose the 25th? You're absolutely right I chose the game against Hull on that day because Nani was atrocious before that, I never made any bones about that my point however was since that date in lets say now 83 appearances he's been responsible for 56 goals (at least)
So the guy that constantly says Premier League stats are more accurate than those in the UCL because of some of the minows that play in the latter now includes International football and doesn't see the issue by doing so? My mistake I had no idea you'd changed your tone and now including International football to suite your argument was now the norm
My number's aren't wrong whatsoever, I'll even list every single game if you really want me to can you do the same?
Soldato
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Any conversation involving a young nani comparison sounds wrong enough to be deleted IMO.
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Caporegime
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