Even so - my point is still correct, it was a mix and match side - 5 players maybe more wouldnt start for Barca in a competitive match vs Utd
Greenlizard0's Weekend Football Thread [August 5/6/7 2011]
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Even so - my point is still correct, it was a mix and match side - 5 players maybe more wouldnt start for Barca in a competitive match vs Utd
Caporegime
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Potential further back than Cleverly ......thats completely pointless, apart from putting MORE games at risk from lack of experience, and the younger player not as easily able to learn from Cleverly (as Cleverly would be able to glean a lot more from a much more experienced player)
I wasnt knocking the guy at all - I think he was a great prospect for the future but imo would be a lot of pressure on the young lad to put him in such a prominant position 1st season playing for Utd
Re Barca game - while I noted you didnt watch, Iniesta, Xavi and Messi didnt play so it was a pretty mix and match side that Utd beat last week
Not sure what the problem is, you seem to be basing Cleverley's current level on his age, there are plenty of 25 year olds that are MUCH worse than Cleverley is now, you don't have to learn from an old player to gain anything.
There aren't many central midfielders in the world of any age who couldn't watch an 18 year old Cesc to get tips on how to improve.
Buying Sneijder won't make certain you beat Barcelona, infact I'd say it was still almost completely as unlikely, even more so if you play the same way as last time, going for a defensive fluke and playing into Barca's strengths.
In Cleverley's case, or Wilshires, or Cesc's, you could have gone on about their age, bought a 30mil midfielder in and benched those players, or push them into the first team, and get a player better than the 30mil guy you would have brought in. His age is irrelevant, he's actually very good now, he has potential to be better but we're not talking about he's like Obertan now, with the potential to be better than Scholes, he's above average in his position in the EPL< maybe way above average, with potential to be better than Scholes.
Every game you bench him for, is frankly a game further away from being the actual best option you could have for that position.
For me, from what I've seen today, and in preseason and at Wigan you're talking about being at a similar level to Wilshire, the point where playing him is best for him, and the team and bringing in a player who will automatically play ahead of him will hurt him more than help him.
He will learn a heck of a lot more playing games and getting up to speed, than training with a more experienced player, and getting few if any games.
The Barca preseason game meant nothing, as you said, I'd say 6 players started who wouldn't normally start games for them OR wouldn't have played in the same position. Though Thiago could well replace someone this year as first team.
Soldato
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Well, the massive difference is our youth players actually form an essential part of our first team squad.
Richards and Hart aside, City don't have any youth players in their first/second XIs. Boyata has barely featured, Weiss has made ONE appearance. They have brought in highly rated players like Boateng, only managed one season out of them and stunted their development.Players like Pogba who are brought in around 16 only join the club that late because of the crap rules the FA have in place for recruiting youngsters. They would join up with our academy much earlier if that wasn't the case.
Caporegime
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Sorry just watched the highlights on itv. anderson was much better than good. he really was involved in so much.
It was cleverly who was simply good, Anderson was very impressive.
Soldato
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Is this REALLY a road you want to go down?
I dont mind, im happy to debate signings until the cows come home.
Im well aware what Mancherster United have spent and im also aware of what we have done in terms of progressing players.
We sign players and screw up but we also sign players who turn to gold.
Caporegime
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To be fair the biggest thing both City and Chelsea did that Man U haven't(as badly) is spend a heck of a lot extra on players who ended up leaving the club very quickly for often very poor value for money. Fergie makes mistakes in the transfer market like anyone, but for Chelsea it was the Shevchenko's, the Kezman's, etc, etc, etc. City the same, RSC, Robinho(though not a failure), Jo, etc, etc. Thats where the main difference in money came from, because both teams had so much cash and essentially didn't want to wait, they bought with far less time spent scouting and really making sure, so their success/failure rates are pretty horrible.
If City/Utd only really brought their first team players now like Utd, then the amounts they would have spent would be vastly smaller, and if they had a decade like Utd did, their backup and rotation players would be littered with cheaper youth team players.
Pretending that Utd haven't bought their way to a successful team is ridiculous though, same for Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Villa....
Caporegime
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Song is involved in everything Arsenal do, but if he wasn't there and the rest of the players just made their sideways passes themselves, he wouldn't be missed in the slightest. Cleverley was involved in passing that almost always went forwards, went forwards, quickly, got the ball to people in space who could themselves push forwards, and was involved in creating a goal.
Anderson did little if any of that for most of the game.
The FA are just trying to ensure they needlessly injure a few players before the season starts.
WRONG
I never said anything about age at all
Im basing it on EXPERIENCE, one year at Wigan (and a few U21 internationals), which is absolutely nothing esp without a dominant midfield partner to assist (and to be fair he played a lot of games at Wigan in a wider position)
Nothing is certain in football
following one season of EPL matches will teach most people that (or even CL matches for that matter)
However adding the likes of Sneijder will improve majority of 1st XI's and nearly every club's squad (maybe Barca is one, but very few if any others)
You are welcome to your opinion, but certainly a few leading managers (thankfully) disagree with you completely ....and for that matter most in here lol....
With a better / more attacking CM..or trio (which is a given if WS was part of it) then Utd accordingly wouldnt be playing into Barca's hands....maybe the result wouldnt have been any different but at least Utd would be trying something different and probably bringing the game more to them anyway (rather than everything on the counter)
hmmm so you are now comparing Cleverley with one season of experience with Wigan to Cesc with 6? seasons experience with Arsenal......even comparing him to Wilshere (brilliant player not with standing) the latter still has double the amount of experience, even more if you consider he has at least played a season with his current team mates.
Cleverley may well end up being Scholes - but he doesnt have Paul's knowledge of the opposition, or his knowledge of the game in general or even (so much) confidence with playing week in week out at the very top with the media spotlight continually on him.
All of these aspects take time to aquire, and with any hack now adays being able to write a blog and publish within minutes / hours its not even the same as when Scholes, Nevilles , Beckham etc first came into the senior squad 15 years ago.
There are also enough games (Utd , Chelsea, even Arsenal are likely to play near 60 games a season ) for there to be two senior AM choices for every game , even without the option of sometimes playing both in a three man midfield - so it wont stop his growth (even if the other AM isnt subbed in important games, which is always possible) anyway
Obertan was never a youth a player.
Why didnt you choose Smalling, Rooney, Giggs and Rafeal as the youth players that United had brought on?
Or Scholes?
Or Nani and Ando?
Or Fabio?
Why one not a youth player when he was bought and two random reserve team players?
Caporegime
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Requires a thread because...
Soldato
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UTD have been doing this sort of play a lot in pre-season. Hope they can play like this in the upcoming season.
Its just mesmerizing watching the ball just ping about.
Its just mesmerizing watching the ball just ping about.
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Soldato
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It would explain a lot.