Grief & Loss

Wizzkidy said:
The house work itself is a full time job.
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Would hiring a cleaner/maid/whatever they are called help out albeit I realise affordability might be an issue.

It would be quite eye-opening how much time you would get back if someone was there to, at the very least, clean the house and do the washing/drying/ironing. I appreciate that, given you have 5 kids, it might be pricey as might need them 3 times a week (Mon/Wed/Fri) to keep on top of it all

It would certainly take a strain off physically and mentally.
 
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Ayahuasca said:
You're doing amazingly well all things considered @Wizzkidy It's a shame your employer can't make some reasonable adjustments, i.e. full-time remote working or even just one day a week going in sounds like it would be a massive help, even if it was only temporary.

Now may not be the right time, but if it's going to lead to burnout, start looking elsewhere. As above, get all the support you can, you've paid a lot into the system.
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It's burnout I'm worried about. I am lucky the sister in law is here quite a bit but she is also going through loss, she has lost her sister (even be it they didnt always see eye to eye) and she also has a daughter herself. I feel like the luckiest man alive that she is helping me otherwise I really would be in the right doo doo.

I don't feel in the right headspace to look for a new role at the moment and I doubt I'll get anything as good if I'm honest, I dunno maybe one day

Junglist said:
Please don't do that to yourself. You can run 'what if' scenarios around your head for the rest of your life but all you'll be doing is beating yourself up over something that can't be changed.

You sound like an incredibly strong individual to be able to hold it all together not only for yourself but also for your children and extended family. It's a shame your employers aren't being more sympathetic to what's going on in your life but I hope it all irons out.

Honestly, I know it doesn't mean much coming from a faceless forum stranger but I admire the strength you're showing and I'm sure your wife would be extremely proud of how you are doing - as we all are

Take care and try to be kind to yourself :)
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This is the thing, I do think about what if every single day. I can't help it! What if I wasn't downstairs making dinner, why wasn't I up there waiting with her, would that of make the difference? She asked me to look after the kids while she waited in bed, I made some bad decisions and I will never forgive myself. I also didn't see the signs she was having over the week or two prior, heartburn, lack of energy I should have known, I let her down big time. You say I am strong but I don't feel it. I feel like a complete failure to my partner for 20 years and wife for 12.
Ayahuasca said:
I think you've already shown how committed you are given the circumstances, and what you're asking for isn't much, they can easily measure your performance when WFH to see if it drops.

You need to consider how much longer you can work like this before you burn out, because from your post above it sounds like you're already close to the breaking point. You're potentially putting your own mental and physical health at risk with the stress and not having any real time to rest.
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I would agree but "company policy" is 3 days a week in the office. So I will have to raise a flexible working request, but the whole thing makes me feel like they won't take it well, they will do it but then I look like an awkward worker.
Richie said:
Would hiring a cleaner/maid/whatever they are called help out albeit I realise affordability might be an issue.

It would be quite eye-opening how much time you would get back if someone was there to, at the very least, clean the house and do the washing/drying/ironing. I appreciate that, given you have 5 kids, it might be pricey as might need them 3 times a week (Mon/Wed/Fri) to keep on top of it all

It would certainly take a strain off physically and mentally.
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I was considering a cleaner, currently me and the sister in law share the load, but it's even too much for both of us if I'm honest, it's probably hard to relate because unless you have actually had 5 children it's really hard to understand just how much mess they make within a few minutes. I will investigate this though, it may take some pressure off.
 
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So sorry for your loss.

Appreciate the what if way of thinking, I do that far too much which isn't good for my mentality.

I keep tellling myself "it is what it is" or "c'est la vie" because it's extremely hard to try and control things outside of your control and it's just time wasted thinking about it. (again I say this, but it's hard to not do it, so don't feel bad if you aren't always achieving 100% of what you said you would, we are all human...)

Try and remind yourself of the things that make you smile, and like you said, you are honoring her memory, so try and honor her memory by not dragging yourself down. Wouldn't she want you to be happy?
 
Wizzkidy said:
This is the thing, I do think about what if every single day. I can't help it! What if I wasn't downstairs making dinner, why wasn't I up there waiting with her, would that of make the difference? She asked me to look after the kids while she waited in bed, I made some bad decisions and I will never forgive myself. I also didn't see the signs she was having over the week or two prior, heartburn, lack of energy I should have known, I let her down big time. You say I am strong but I don't feel it. I feel like a complete failure to my partner for 20 years and wife for 12.
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I know man, I know. It's really easy for me to sit here and tell you not to worry about something but when it's this big, what you're doing is totally normal.

You were presumably downstairs making dinner for your family. That's the theme I'm getting here. The one constant thing in this thread that is evident, other than how much you love your wife, is that you are always putting the needs of your family first.

You were asked to look after the kids and that is exactly what you did, you are doing and will continue to do. You haven't failed anyone and how were you to know it would come to this? You couldn't possibly know. Our brains and conscience can be our worst enemy at times. You will tell yourself you didn't do enough, you weren't good enough etc but the truth is so far from that it's unbelievable

You feel like a failure but to me you sound like a man that's held it together during what most be one of the most challenging times possible. You're not even considering your own wellbeing but everyone else's around you. No. You're not a failure. You're the complete opposite to that. I've known people to give up over things much, much more trivial yet you're still going.

Much love to you and yours.
 
@Wizzkidy Sounds like you and your family are going through hell.


I lost my grandfather a couple of years ago to a sudden heart attack, and I still remember the absolute shock at picking up the phone to hear about the news.


I’m not going to lie, even now it hurts, but I have learned to think more about all the good times than I do the bad. Time helps.



In your situation, though, I’d recommend professional help. As you’ve identified you’re holding a lot together, so make sure you look after yourself too :)
 
Wizzkidy said:
This is the thing, I do think about what if every single day. I can't help it! What if I wasn't downstairs making dinner, why wasn't I up there waiting with her, would that of make the difference? She asked me to look after the kids while she waited in bed, I made some bad decisions and I will never forgive myself. I also didn't see the signs she was having over the week or two prior, heartburn, lack of energy I should have known, I let her down big time. You say I am strong but I don't feel it. I feel like a complete failure to my partner for 20 years and wife for 12.
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This is grief guilt and is very common. The way you have typed it out is literally 100% how it plays out.
Its perfectly normal to feel like this but you must know that it is not healthy if left unchecked.

You have to gain control of it otherwise it will destroy you. That is the harsh reality unfortunately.
You have to forgive yourself, you didn't do anything wrong, life can be cruel and death can come for any of us at any time. You have to try your best to ground yourself in the reality of the situation no matter how hard it is, because your mind will absolutely wreck havoc if you don't get it in check. Seek counselling if you can.
 
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Wizzkidy said:
I was considering a cleaner, currently me and the sister in law share the load, but it's even too much for both of us if I'm honest, it's probably hard to relate because unless you have actually had 5 children it's really hard to understand just how much mess they make within a few minutes. I will investigate this though, it may take some pressure off.
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I certainly don't underestimate it and quite believe the mess that can be made with 5. I don't know how old they are but as time goes on, some responsibilities can be at least partly given to them.

That's not to say not to let them have a childhood but kids from around 10 should be able to at least clean up after themselves and do things like help at dinner time (setting the table, clearing the table, washing the dishes)

As I say, they can still have a childhood even with the above and, a probable side effect of it? They'll be streaks ahead of their peers in things like self responsibility, resilience and just general life skills as they grow up


Re:cleaner - see if you can get one that will do the laundry as well given how much effort that takes.
 
Richie said:
I certainly don't underestimate it and quite believe the mess that can be made with 5. I don't know how old they are but as time goes on, some responsibilities can be at least partly given to them.

That's not to say not to let them have a childhood but kids from around 10 should be able to at least clean up after themselves and do things like help at dinner time (setting the table, clearing the table, washing the dishes)

As I say, they can still have a childhood even with the above and, a probable side effect of it? They'll be streaks ahead of their peers in things like self responsibility, resilience and just general life skills as they grow up


Re:cleaner - see if you can get one that will do the laundry as well given how much effort that takes.
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I should maybe mention that x2 of them have Autism (5 year old & 13 year old) and x1 of them has ADHD (8 years old) so yea....no one really knows what it's like unless you have experienced it.

Ages are

13
10
8
twins at 5

The older two help here and there but it's a drop in the ocean, and we are working on that but it's a long haul and will take time. The main thing is they are all at school and are doing OK. myself....not so much
 
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I am so sorry for your loss.

Grief is a very personal thing so to say I know what you are going through would be wrong. I can say I've been through a similar thing. I lost my wife at 38 to cancer. Yours was a sudden grief, plunging you into a despair you were not at all prepared for, mine was a slow, painful process where for many months I knew the inevitable but could put things into place because of this.

I am now 53 and have moved on with my life. I have an amazing, supportive girlfriend, good friends and enjoy life again - it took me a long time with some set backs along the way. The grief never goes away and can catch you at the oddest times, but your coping mechanisms become hardened so now, it no longer stops me in my tracks or ruins my day. A grief councilor explained it best - imagine your life as a glass jar and your grief as a sponge ball in that jar. At the moment the ball fills the jar completely leaving you no room for anything else. In time, you will learn to expand that jar to make room in your life for other things. The grief never goes away or gets any smaller - that sponge ball stays there, exactly the same size - you just learn to make that life jar bigger so you can put things in it around that ball and carry on.

Nothing anyone says to you at the moment will help, but know that everything you are feeling and going through is 100% normal and part of the process as your brain learns to forge new pathways and cope.

You will get through it.
 
Wizzkidy said:
It's burnout I'm worried about. I am lucky the sister in law is here quite a bit but she is also going through loss, she has lost her sister (even be it they didnt always see eye to eye) and she also has a daughter herself. I feel like the luckiest man alive that she is helping me otherwise I really would be in the right doo doo.

I don't feel in the right headspace to look for a new role at the moment and I doubt I'll get anything as good if I'm honest, I dunno maybe one day



This is the thing, I do think about what if every single day. I can't help it! What if I wasn't downstairs making dinner, why wasn't I up there waiting with her, would that of make the difference? She asked me to look after the kids while she waited in bed, I made some bad decisions and I will never forgive myself. I also didn't see the signs she was having over the week or two prior, heartburn, lack of energy I should have known, I let her down big time. You say I am strong but I don't feel it. I feel like a complete failure to my partner for 20 years and wife for 12.


I would agree but "company policy" is 3 days a week in the office. So I will have to raise a flexible working request, but the whole thing makes me feel like they won't take it well, they will do it but then I look like an awkward worker.
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I know this isn’t really what you want to hear right now, but work really doesn’t matter.

I understand fully the financial pressures and that you need to keep the household functioning but I can’t stress this enough: your job does not matter.

If you’re lucky work will be supportive, if not then you need to move on, it’s really that simple.

I was unable to function at work for roughly 5 months - some days I literally could not bring myself to turn my computer on, others I’d burst into tears mid meeting. Work were luckily great, but I also got signed off just in case. Go and see your GP, get a sick note. You need to look after yourself for both the sake of you and more importantly your children.

Ask for counselling- there is a long wait of course and normally I’d recommend going private but that might be another financial stress at this time.

Im over the crippling grief stage now, but I still have the odd bad day, it’s just important to not keep it bottled up. It might sound silly but I feel like it’s important to point out that it’s okay for you to cry in front of your children. They need to know you’ve suffered such a loss as well.

I doubt I can help but if you feel you need to talk feel feee to reach out via dm.
 
platypus said:
Ask for counselling- there is a long wait of course and normally I’d recommend going private but that might be another financial stress at this time.

Im over the crippling grief stage now, but I still have the odd bad day, it’s just important to not keep it bottled up. It might sound silly but I feel like it’s important to point out that it’s okay for you to cry in front of your children. They need to know you’ve suffered such a loss as well.

I doubt I can help but if you feel you need to talk feel feee to reach out via dm.
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I think that "getting over it" largely consists of filling the gaps left by someone dying. Once people do that, then there are fewer reminders and that's actually a good thing. People need to remember when they want to, not all the time, because the grief never fully goes away, it's just triggered less often.

A perfect example of what not to do is my sister. I lost two brothers four years ago. My sister has been a complete mess ever since. She makes two huge mistakes - firstly she refuses to go to a councillor. Her reasoning is that the councillor can't do what she wants, which is to bring her brothers back. I keep telling her that's not what a councillor is for, the councillor is to help her deal with the loss, and she needs that because she is drowning in the loss. Secondly, she keeps on going through activities she used to do with them, except, of course, they are not there. She calls it remembrance, I call it self-torture.

I think the important point in all of this is that there are certain events in life we can not change. If we confront ourselves with that all the time, it's a recipe for depression. We might not like it, but we HAVE to move on. We have to put those memories aside so they are only triggered when we want them to be, and that has to be minimised to stop the pain and threat of depression.
 
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I think ultimately, whilst it might not be seen to be ideal, everyone does go through their grief in their own very different ways; which is fine, because we are all different.

Much like how some view love from a romantic relationship as this romantic and emotional thing of the heart and mind, and not physical intimacy related - to which it can be for some; yet some others are wired differently, and for them, physical intimacy is how they show and express their love. Neither is really wrong, they just are different. Understanding there is a difference is what allows both different dichotomies to work together.

For those grieving, it could take a matter of hours to bounce back, some might be days, some others might need months, whilst others may need years, or even never get over it. But in all these instances, it is normal "for them". To deny anyone their path and method of grieving, will only simply put up divisions between you (this is why some counsellors are seen as an enemy and no point). However "unhealthy" you feel their path and method may take them to. Whilst we should not encourage actions and events that could cause others harm, some of these grieving individuals need that heavy fall to realise that's not where they want to be; meaning trying to "save them" from themselves, may only entrench them further in their grief, and if divisions are up between you as well, they may feel they have no one they can come to for help to get back out of their plight when they are ready and/or need it most.

They will recover when they ready to recover, not before.

As for help for OP, I can't offer any better advice and suggestions that has not already been given by others here. Only, try not to overthink on "What If's", because those are an endless fantasy that only uses up time to think about and does nothing but stresses you more over things you may or may not even have had the ability to affect to a different outcome; You can let your dreams at night do that "What If" during your sleep for you - whether they are sweet dreams or nightmares; your brain will process that for you then. During the waking times? You have better and more important things to be concerned with; your family.

Wishing you and your family all the best.
 
I'm sorry for your loss @Wizzkidy :(

Wizzkidy said:
I was considering a cleaner, currently me and the sister in law share the load, but it's even too much for both of us if I'm honest, it's probably hard to relate because unless you have actually had 5 children it's really hard to understand just how much mess they make within a few minutes. I will investigate this though, it may take some pressure off.
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As the youngest of four I can well appreciate the level of chaos :) Personally, I think that paying for a cleaner is one of the best ways that anyone on a decent income can trade money for wellbeing. Even if you only get them in for a couple of hours a week they make a massive difference.
 
Hi OP,

I'm incredibly sorry to hear about your loss. This is going to e a tough time for all of you, and I wish you the very best getting through it. It sounds like you have some local support from family and friends - don't be afraid to lean on them for fear of being burdensome - you're not - people love you and want to help. And we're all here to listen and chat whenever you need it :-)
 
I am so sorry for your loss.

I'm a single Mum of 2 (21 and nearly 18) and its not been an easy journey. My circumstances are completely different to yours and I'm in no way comparing our circumstances.

All we can do as parents is do our best. And it very much sounds to me like you are doing your best.

My closest friend lost her husband very suddenly and unexpectedly just over 2 years ago.

He was misdiagnosed by his gp and had to wait for hospital treatment. Unfortunately, a few weeks before his first appointment, the actual condition he had worsened acutely very sudsenly and he passed away in a very traumatic way. My friend had to do cpr.

She still has flashbacks of that day and has 'what if' thoughts often.

She did everything that she could on that day, and I remind her whenever she needs reminding.

You did everything that you could on the day you lost your wife. And you have continued to do everything you can for your children since then.

You're still finding your feet, you will get there. And you're doing an amazing job.
 
tiggy said:
I am so sorry for your loss.

I'm a single Mum of 2 (21 and nearly 18) and its not been an easy journey. My circumstances are completely different to yours and I'm in no way comparing our circumstances.

All we can do as parents is do our best. And it very much sounds to me like you are doing your best.

My closest friend lost her husband very suddenly and unexpectedly just over 2 years ago.

He was misdiagnosed by his gp and had to wait for hospital treatment. Unfortunately, a few weeks before his first appointment, the actual condition he had worsened acutely very sudsenly and he passed away in a very traumatic way. My friend had to do cpr.

She still has flashbacks of that day and has 'what if' thoughts often.

She did everything that she could on that day, and I remind her whenever she needs reminding.

You did everything that you could on the day you lost your wife. And you have continued to do everything you can for your children since then.

You're still finding your feet, you will get there. And you're doing an amazing job.
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I think what caught me out, was that no one said how long it takes.

For me, it was about four years before it was reasonably normal again. I mean, I say reasonably, because you never forget something like that, but it does fade.

But then I also think it very much depends on how old you are. I have seen elderly relatives take much longer. It seems that a death in the family can also confront people with their own mortality, and that is a little more tricky to get past.
 
tiggy said:
I don't think you can put a timescale on grief. It's a very personal thing that I think we carry with us for the rest of our lives.
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No, there is no timescale and the intensity will fade over time but it will be with you to the end,

I lost my wife in September to cancer and it came as a huge shock. I thought it would be easy, but it isn’t. Some of the emotions are so strong that you sometimes wonder whether it is worth going on, but you do. You have to take it as it comes, don’t bottle anything and never supress the tears. Talk about it if you can, people will understand, it is not something to be ashamed of.

If it becomes overwhelming then seek counselling, there is always help available.

Funny, I feel better having said that tonight and will sleep well.
 
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