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GTX 1070 - any takers?

Griffildur said:
I am 80% determined to get a 1070.

1080 has a bit more performance but I don't like the price tag.

The performance / value factor is clearly in favour of 1070. I keep an eye on performance tests and I see the 1070 being over 980Ti, that's good enough for me. I still use a 970 so the difference will be noticeable.
Click to expand...

Pricing will make a big difference for me - if I can get a OC model 1070 at something not too silly I'll probably grab one as a stopgap until the bigger cards that said still having a hard time justifying replacing my 780 - most of what I'm playing at the moment runs fine at 2560x with it and a G-Sync monitor the only thing that struggles is Doom (which still runs fine at 1920x1080) but that is partly due to some performance bug or something - takes 3x the performance hit going from 1080p to 1440p compared to the delta in any other game going between those resolutions.
 
Griffildur said:
I am 80% determined to get a 1070.

1080 has a bit more performance but I don't like the price tag.

The performance / value factor is clearly in favour of 1070. I keep an eye on performance tests and I see the 1070 being over 980Ti, that's good enough for me. I still use a 970 so the difference will be noticeable.
Click to expand...

to me more more important is the resale value rather than price tag.

If I can sell 1080 for at least 80% of what I paid 1 years later I'll be happy...I may be wrong but I don't think 1080 will hold its 2nd hand market value.
 
fish99 said:
Hopefully with a game too.
Click to expand...

Not sure why people think that price of 1070 will go down substantially. It won't. Not in the next 2 years.

Not only nvidia has strong position on the market (read monopoly) but historically 1070's predecessor, gtx 970 still costs pretty much the same when it was released over 1.5(!) years ago.

My bet is that 1080 will depreciate quite fast unless nvidia decides to delay 1080ti release. Which may as well happen.

I agree that price of tech stuff in general goes down quickly but this is only in fast moving and competitive market. PC gaming GPU market, although it may not look like it, is rather stagnant in this respect. In other words, don't expect price drops on 1070 in the next 2 years. You may be able to get broken Far Cry 5 if you're lucky ;)
 
Pottsey said:
Except for that’s wrong the way to be sure is to follow the official rules which have been out years. What determines if a card is mid-range or high range is a system of rules very clear rules that have been out for years and those rules clearly show the 1080 and 1070 fit in to the high end family of cards. Some of the rules which NV use to determine if a card is mid range or high range.

Number range (Last 2 digits) 70-95, shader units 50% – 100%, bus width 75% to 100%. size 75% to 100%, price range >$300, memory type GDDR5, GDDR5X then it belongs in the high end family

Number range (Last 2 digits) 50-65, shader units 25% – 50%, bus width 50% to 75%%. size 50% to 75%, memory type GDDR3, GDDR5. Price range $100–300. The belongs in the mid range end family

Its very clear there are 4 cards in the high range family xx70, xx80, TI and X versions of xx70/xx80. I don't understand why you are so insistent there are only 2 cards in the high range family that's not how it works. There are 4 cards in that family.

The rest of the world calls the 1080/1070 high range, the established rules say they are high range and NVidia say they are high range. Calling them mid range is just silly. They don't fit into the rules for what a mid range card is.
Click to expand...

I put my reply to you in spoilers so I don't take this thread off topic.

You aren't following or even understanding. Of course Nvidia are going to call these cards high end and ask you to pay high end prices. And it's plain to see the simple bait and switch has worked on you too.

You say for the last 8 years the x80 and x70 has represented the high end. This is true up until 2012 when they released the 680 and 670. These were mid range cards? How do we know? Because they were built on the GK104 chip.

The name of cards don't matter, I don't think there is just two cards per level. I am basing it strictly on what chip is used. For example the 780, 780Ti, Titan were all high end cards. They were built using the GK110. But Nvidia learned from that mistake. The Titan and 780 were too close in performance. Now they use the Gxxx4 chip, to make the x80 and x70 cards.

Don't you get that? The mid range die has always produced the mid range GPUs.

Chips ending with 0 - GF100, GF110, GK110, GM100,
Chips ending with 4 - GF104, GF114, GK104, GK114, GM104, GP104.


Now Pre 2012 cards based on those chips line up exactly as you have wrote.
High end:-
GF100 - 480 and 470
GF110 - 580 and 570

Mid range:-
GF104 - 460
GF114 - 560, 560ti

In 2012 Nvidia had no high end chip. There was no GK100. So they were forced, or maybe they had it planned, to use their GK104 part as high end.
High end
GK104 - 680, 670.

Then began the first part of their plan to charge more for their cards. They introduced the Titan.
high end:-
GK110 - Titan, 780.
GK110B - 780 Ti, Titan Black and Titan Z.

Mid range :-
GK104 - 770, 760.

Now with the success of the Titan, basically the 580 GTX of it's time with a much higher price tag. Nvidia moved to next stage, moving the price of their mid range cards up.
Ultra high end
GM100 - Titan-X, 980Ti

High End
GM104 - 980, 970.

And again with Pascal,
High End
GP104 - 1080, 1070.

Don't you see what has happened? Nvidia just invented an ultra high end tier and the Titan and x80ti branded cards are in that category. But, they are just the x80 and x70 cards relabelled. And now the mid range cards have been relabelled x80 and x70 and they are called the high end.

There hasn't been an added level of performance in the last few years. Ultra high end, means nothing. It's just a label by Nvidia that allows them to sell cards for a higher price. It's brilliant marketing, because nearly everybody here fully believes that the 1080 is high end and is happy to pay for that.
 
melmac said:
I put my reply to you in spoilers so I don't take this thread off topic.

You aren't following or even understanding. Of course Nvidia are going to call these cards high end and ask you to pay high end prices. And it's plain to see the simple bait and switch has worked on you too.

You say for the last 8 years the x80 and x70 has represented the high end. This is true up until 2012 when they released the 680 and 670. These were mid range cards? How do we know? Because they were built on the GK104 chip.

The name of cards don't matter, I don't think there is just two cards per level. I am basing it strictly on what chip is used. For example the 780, 780Ti, Titan were all high end cards. They were built using the GK110. But Nvidia learned from that mistake. The Titan and 780 were too close in performance. Now they use the Gxxx4 chip, to make the x80 and x70 cards.

Don't you get that? The mid range die has always produced the mid range GPUs.

Chips ending with 0 - GF100, GF110, GK110, GM100,
Chips ending with 4 - GF104, GF114, GK104, GK114, GM104, GP104.


Now Pre 2012 cards based on those chips line up exactly as you have wrote.
High end:-
GF100 - 480 and 470
GF110 - 580 and 570

Mid range:-
GF104 - 460
GF114 - 560, 560ti

In 2012 Nvidia had no high end chip. There was no GK100. So they were forced, or maybe they had it planned, to use their GK104 part as high end.
High end
GK104 - 680, 670.

Then began the first part of their plan to charge more for their cards. They introduced the Titan.
high end:-
GK110 - Titan, 780.
GK110B - 780 Ti, Titan Black and Titan Z.

Mid range :-
GK104 - 770, 760.

Now with the success of the Titan, basically the 580 GTX of it's time with a much higher price tag. Nvidia moved to next stage, moving the price of their mid range cards up.
Ultra high end
GM100 - Titan-X, 980Ti

High End
GM104 - 980, 970.

And again with Pascal,
High End
GP104 - 1080, 1070.

Don't you see what has happened? Nvidia just invented an ultra high end tier and the Titan and x80ti branded cards are in that category. But, they are just the x80 and x70 cards relabelled. And now the mid range cards have been relabelled x80 and x70 and they are called the high end.

There hasn't been an added level of performance in the last few years. Ultra high end, means nothing. It's just a label by Nvidia that allows them to sell cards for a higher price. It's brilliant marketing, because nearly everybody here fully believes that the 1080 is high end and is happy to pay for that.
Click to expand...

You just breaking nvidia's magic spell mate! let people feel these high end vibes just like apple folks do... :-))

I said that before but will say it again, hats off to Nvidia executives. They hell know how to run a profitable business.
 
skywalker909 said:
Not sure why people think that price of 1070 will go down substantially. It won't. Not in the next 2 years.
Click to expand...
The EVGA 970 SC was about £300 at launch, I got mine for £260 with FC4 a month or two after launch. It might take the 490 launch to do it but you will see some reasonable reductions. I think £300 with a game will happen.
 
fish99 said:
The EVGA 970 SC was about £300 at launch, I got mine for £260 with FC4 a month or two after launch. It might take the 490 launch to do it but you will see some reasonable reductions. I think £300 with a game will happen.
Click to expand...

you're probably talking about one off offers rather than permanent price reductions.

But I agree you can find a deal if you patient enough.
 
melmac said:
I put my reply to you in spoilers so I don't take this thread off topic.

You aren't following or even understanding. Of course Nvidia are going to call these cards high end and ask you to pay high end prices. And it's plain to see the simple bait and switch has worked on you too.

You say for the last 8 years the x80 and x70 has represented the high end. This is true up until 2012 when they released the 680 and 670. These were mid range cards? How do we know? Because they were built on the GK104 chip.

The name of cards don't matter, I don't think there is just two cards per level. I am basing it strictly on what chip is used. For example the 780, 780Ti, Titan were all high end cards. They were built using the GK110. But Nvidia learned from that mistake. The Titan and 780 were too close in performance. Now they use the Gxxx4 chip, to make the x80 and x70 cards.

Don't you get that? The mid range die has always produced the mid range GPUs.

Chips ending with 0 - GF100, GF110, GK110, GM100,
Chips ending with 4 - GF104, GF114, GK104, GK114, GM104, GP104.


Now Pre 2012 cards based on those chips line up exactly as you have wrote.
High end:-
GF100 - 480 and 470
GF110 - 580 and 570

Mid range:-
GF104 - 460
GF114 - 560, 560ti

In 2012 Nvidia had no high end chip. There was no GK100. So they were forced, or maybe they had it planned, to use their GK104 part as high end.
High end
GK104 - 680, 670.

Then began the first part of their plan to charge more for their cards. They introduced the Titan.
high end:-
GK110 - Titan, 780.
GK110B - 780 Ti, Titan Black and Titan Z.

Mid range :-
GK104 - 770, 760.

Now with the success of the Titan, basically the 580 GTX of it's time with a much higher price tag. Nvidia moved to next stage, moving the price of their mid range cards up.
Ultra high end
GM100 - Titan-X, 980Ti

High End
GM104 - 980, 970.

And again with Pascal,
High End
GP104 - 1080, 1070.

Don't you see what has happened? Nvidia just invented an ultra high end tier and the Titan and x80ti branded cards are in that category. But, they are just the x80 and x70 cards relabelled. And now the mid range cards have been relabelled x80 and x70 and they are called the high end.

There hasn't been an added level of performance in the last few years. Ultra high end, means nothing. It's just a label by Nvidia that allows them to sell cards for a higher price. It's brilliant marketing, because nearly everybody here fully believes that the 1080 is high end and is happy to pay for that.
Click to expand...
I am following and understanding. The problem is you seem to have created your own rules that have nothing to do with what makes a card mid-range or high range. I don’t see how the GK104 chip has anything to do with it. What determines if a card is mid range or high range is how many shader units it has, type of memory, bus width, size and price range in comparison to the highest model possible in that generation.

As per my other post anything with over 50% of the shaders, at least 75% of the bus width, at least 75% size and the other factors is classed as part of the high end family. That has how it has been for 8 years. Where is the bait and switch? How are the 1070 or 1080 breaking the rules? As far as I can see the 70 and 80 fit all the established rules to be classed as high end. Calling the 1070/1080 mid range cards breaks the established rules of what a mid range card is.

Do the 1070/1080 fit the following rules Number range (Last 2 digits) 50-65, shader units 25% – 50%, bus width 50% to 75%%. size 50% to 75%, memory type GDDR3, GDDR5. Price range $100–300 if not then they are not mid range.
 
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Pottsey said:
I am following and understanding. The problem is you seem to have created your own rules that have nothing to do with what makes a card mid-range or high range. I don’t see how the GK104 chip has anything to do with it. What determines if a card is mid range or high range is how many shader units it has, type of memory, bus width, size and price range in comparison to the highest model possible in that generation.

As per my other post anything with over 50% of the shaders, at least 75% of the bus width, at least 75% size and the other factors is classed as part of the high end family. That has how it has been for 8 years. Where is the bait and switch? How are the 1070 or 1080 breaking the rules? As far as I can see the 70 and 80 fit all the established rules to be classed as high end. Calling the 1070/1080 mid range cards breaks the established rules of what a mid range card is.

Do the 1070/1080 fit the following rules Number range (Last 2 digits) 50-65, shader units 25% – 50%, bus width 50% to 75%%. size 50% to 75%, memory type GDDR3, GDDR5. Price range $100–300 if not then they are not mid range.
Click to expand...

Before I make a reply to this comment, please answer me this, do you consider the 460 and 560 to be mid range or high end?

And please can you classify them according to your rules.
 
Surely this pointless debate is contextual, they are high end relative to current market and mid range relative to their wider family and what will follow.
 
melmac said:
Before I make a reply to this comment, please answer me this, do you consider the 460 and 560 to be mid range or high end?

And please can you classify them according to your rules.
Click to expand...

Can a card not be both mid range and high end then?

460/560 were mid range, medium "end" cards at the time they were sold and are now low end cards.

The problem with all this is that people seem to think that range substitutes for end as "mid end" doesn't sound right.

Range and end are different things.

1080 and 1070 are high end, mid range parts, assuming the 1080ti and pascal titan are given.

The 980ti is a high end, 2nd to top of the range card.
 
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melmac said:
Before I make a reply to this comment, please answer me this, do you consider the 460 and 560 to be mid range or high end?

And please can you classify them according to your rules.
Click to expand...
First of all they are not my rules. 8 years ago NVidia got rid of the old naming scheme and created the new one. It’s a bit early to look at numbers but the 560 price fits the mid range rule, the 560 bandwidth is 92 compared to 192.4 again fits the mid-range rule, the size again fits, bus width is 192 against 384 again places it in the mid range. Sorry not got time to look at the 460 or the rest of the 560 specs as I am heading to work. That’s enough there to place it into the mid-range and I believe if you check the shaders is also falls into the mid-range as well there.

The 560 does fit some of the high end rules as sometimes there might be a little crossover in a few of the rules but in the case of the 560 the majority of the rules clearly place it in the mid range.
 
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the 1070 and 1080 are not the "High end" imo.

They are the Higher end of the Mid range.

the High end is the the 1080TI and the TITAN; Both will be released.

And No, there is no "Ultra high end".
Its:
Low end
Mid range
High end

That is all.
 
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Can you guys seriously give it a rest!, Multiple people on this thread have asked you to pack it in and yet you continue to de rail the thread.

Trust each other and take it to email if it's that important,i cone in here to catch up on news and info about the nividia cards but instead I have to scroll through pointless arguing over multiple pages just to get a glimpse of what this thread should have in it .

You ain't gonna change how each other feel so agree to disagree and move on,im surprised you haven't had warnings tbh.
 
Trust is for MM only and if there are warnings then of course I'll shut up.

There should be a thread about this as everyone uses this mid range /high end argument when discussing GPUs and it's inescapable due to everyone having their own opinion.

Personally I enjoy discussing/arguing a certain point of view, I find it funny and believe it or not, would prefer to win so we can all agree and leave it alone :D

The post above yours though is a classic example...low end/mid range/high end are all part of the same scale apparently.
 
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