Guy got arrested for making racist comments on twitter about Muamba

Angilion said:
No you aren't. You're both deceitful and cowardly. Deceitful because you're opposed to freedom of speech and claiming you're in favour of it. Cowardly because you're not standing behind your views and defending them honestly - you're hiding behind popular support for freedom of speech while opposing freedom of speech.
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It is perfectly possible and reasonable to be in support of freedom of speech without believing that right also removed all responsibility for the consequences of that freedom.

Everything we do and say has consequences, we are free to make the act but then we must deal with the consequences of those actions. If I go up to a group of lumbering meat headed football fans and elaborate on why their choice of club is indeed the wrong one, do you think they would sit back, listen and agree to disagree? No, my incredibly bad decision would lead to its inevitable consequence.
 
Fenris said:
It is perfectly possible and reasonable to be in support of freedom of speech without believing that right also removed all responsibility for the consequences of that freedom.
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Yes it is, but that's not the position that I was replying to. The position that I was replying to was this:

Claiming freedom of speech is just a way for people with vile views to try and justify saying it.
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That poster is fundamentally opposed to the concept of freedom of speech. What annoyed me was that they also claimed to be in favour of freedom of speech - dishonest and cowardly.

Everyone is in favour of freedom of speech that they agree with or don't care about. The key point is whether or not a person is in favour of freedom of speech that offends them - that's supporting freedom of speech.
 
Angilion said:
That poster is fundamentally opposed to the concept of freedom of speech.
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No he isn't, he's opposed to freedom to be a racist.

As am I and every other decent human being on the planet.

The quote "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant" comes to mind.
 
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Fenris said:
No he isn't, he's opposed to freedom to be a racist.

As am I and every other decent human being on the planet.

The quote "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant" comes to mind.
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Ignorant of what exactly?

As far as I've know there's never been a scientific study that proves all races are equal. It's just an assumption everyone accepts to avoid hurt feelings.

What if I said black men are more violent because I've seen the crime statistics and I've read a study that showed they have 20% higher serum testosterone levels than whites.

That's racist right? It's an informed opinion, but a socially forbidden one. Should I be arrested by the thought police?
 
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I have the feeling there are an awful lot of people who don't quite understand what 'freedom of speech' entails, here goes...

exhashdotdot said:
Why isn't anyone proving that what this guy has said is illegal?
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That is the next step. You get arrested and then you go to court, in which a magistrate will decide if you broke the law and if so, what we're going to do about it.
exhashdotdot said:
If he isn't going to get convicted, how does it make it legal to arrest him if he hasn't broken the law.
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You don't get arrested because you've broken a law. You get arrested because you're suspected of breaking a law. It isn't the police's job to prove your guilt.
exhashdotdot said:
Under which law does it specifically say he could've broken it?
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Freedom of expression is a right we have in this country with hundreds of exceptions... I'm sure there are plenty of prosecutors who can prove he's broken the law.

exhashdotdot said:
Then you're not for freedom of speech.

I don't want people saying horrible things, but I respect their right to say horrible things because it's the same right which lets people say marvelous things.
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Free speech does NOT imply freedom from consequence!
Hikari Kisugi said:
In the US people have the right to freedom of speech.
This is not the US, we do not have a constitution, we have elected representatives who set our law. We do not have a right to freedom of speech.

We have a freedom of thought, you can think whatever you like, when you start expressing it, you may be breaking a law. It is nothing to do with freedom of speech.
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No. We have freedom of speech just like the Americans and Europeans do, since a constitution isn't a prerequisite to freedom of speech. If I recall correctly, our right to free speech comes from the European declaration of human rights.
kwerk said:
Ignorant of what exactly?

As far as I've know there's never been a scientific study that proves all races are equal. It's just an assumption everyone accepts to avoid hurt feelings.

What if I said black men are more violent because I've seen the crime statistics and I've read a study that showed they have 20% higher serum testosterone levels than whites.

That's racist right? It's an informed opinion, but a socially forbidden one.
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Maybe it isn't racist (I'm no lawyer), but it does imply a flawed understanding of statistics ;)
 
Killerkebab said:
I have the feeling there are an awful lot of people who don't quite understand what 'freedom of speech' entails, here goes...


That is the next step. You get arrested and then you go to court, in which a magistrate will decide if you broke the law and if so, what we're going to do about it.
You don't get arrested because you've broken a law. You get arrested because you're suspected of breaking a law. It isn't the police's job to prove your guilt.
Freedom of expression is a right we have in this country with hundreds of exceptions... I'm sure there are plenty of prosecutors who can prove he's broken the law.

Free speech does NOT imply freedom from consequence!No. We have freedom of speech just like the Americans and Europeans do, since a constitution isn't a prerequisite to freedom of speech. If I recall correctly, our right to free speech comes from the European declaration of human rights.
Maybe it isn't racist (I'm no lawyer), but it does imply a flawed understanding of statistics ;)
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You mean if 13% of the population do 54% of the murders, it's because the police are racist and arrest them more often?
 
bitslice said:
This is making Twitter as accountable as a newspaper when really only people signed up for his account can see it.
It's like a Jewish guy complaining that somebody has Nazi flag on their bedroom wall because his brother's second cousin's Aunt Jemima told him about it.

If nobody had said anything then presumably Mumbo would not have heard about it and would not now be put in the position of having to be offended.
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I rather thought that anyone could search Twitter e.g. anyone who searched for Muamba would be able to find it - either way he has published the information in an open forum where even if what you've suggested is true the only prerequisite for access is to subscribe to his account.

kwerk said:
Yes I can, as long as I don't point it at anybody.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States
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Do you live in the United States? If not then the relevance of their laws in the UK is fairly negligible, especially with regard to carrying firearms which are much more stringently controlled. It's also worth noting that in the article you linked to the right to openly carry weapons is not universal so you'd still have to pick which states you did it in or risk issues with local law enforcement.
 
I'm pretty sure we don't have a right to freedom of speech.
In fact, it's pretty restricted.

Any movie for sale has to have been through the BBFC shows that censorship is part of everyday life. *Although that would technically be freedom of expression, not speech*
 
They should arrest Al Sharpton for his racist and homophobic rants. This guy is meant to be a liberal but he's just a fake looking out for his peoples interests.
 
Fenris said:
No he isn't, he's opposed to freedom to be a racist.

As am I and every other decent human being on the planet.

The quote "You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant" comes to mind.
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He is speaking against free speech. He is not speaking against racism. Free speech and racism are not the same thing.

You are entitled to your opinion, even if it is ignorant. And I am entitled to disagree with you.
 
kwerk said:
Ignorant of what exactly?

As far as I've know there's never been a scientific study that proves all races are equal. [..]
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The last scientific study I saw on the subject of race concluded that there are no races. That is also my opinion. The trivial superficial differences that some people call "race" are not a valid reason for categorising people.
 
kwerk said:
Yes I can, as long as I don't point it at anybody.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States
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You are basically irrevelant.
This entire thread will hold no meaning for you.
You have freedom of speech, we do not.
So anything you say will be influenced by nature of location and completely different rule of law.
Just like your version of democracy, where you can vote for one or the other one. Smashing.
 
a lot of people appear to be commenting on this without actually knowing what he said. He was wishing the player dead, was happy about it and made several racist remarks about his race. Is this even open for debate whether or not he should be arrested ?

wow.
 
I don't think he should have been arrested.

Sunny Hundal makes a point on similar lines here :

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/0...ith-racial-aggravation-for-soldiers-comments/

Azhar Ahmed shouldn't have been arrested either.

Unless someone is trying to incite people to go out and cause harm to others then I don't think the police should get involved. If you start arresting people because they say something that could be perceived as offensive to someone then you need to start arresting the entire country.

I don't agree with what Stacy or Ahmed said online, I just don't think either of them should have been arrested.
 
omnomnom said:
a lot of people appear to be commenting on this without actually knowing what he said. He was wishing the player dead, was happy about it and made several racist remarks about his race. Is this even open for debate whether or not he should be arrested ?

wow.
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Check out the thread on here about Dale Farm and you will see plenty of posters who by the same standards should be arrested.
 
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