Soldato
I keep getting enjoy a bacon subway advert?
Halal, is it meat you're looking for?
- Thread starter Zbornak
- Start date
I keep getting enjoy a bacon subway advert?
The problem is that halal doesn't do anything but mention God as part of the ritual, God, be it from the Christian, Jewish or Islamic perspective is still (according to all three) The One True God, (that it can be a Muslim, Christian or Jew who says it illustrates this)...to accept that halal is supplication to an Idol, is to say that God is false not just that the Islamic perspective is false. It's like everyone worshipping the same football team, but disagreeing over the best tactics or who was the best manager. (With God being the Team, and Moses, Christ, Mohammed the respective managers and The Bible, Torah and Quran the respective playbooks).
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Man of Honour
Finally a religious conversation I can get on board with.
Are the extremists putting in dirty challenges, or are they offside?
Are the extremists putting in dirty challenges, or are they offside?
Caporegime
Acts speaks for itself. It's impossible to read it and take paul as anything other than a liar, con artist, and a self appointed apostle. He ignores jesus apostles. He says they add nothing to him. And that the people should follow him not jesus.
Peter has, in the revelation 2.2 (im going to presume it's the appstle Peter who jesus showed the resurrection to, and is told about the false prophet and to warn others. Now who do you believe? Peter whom jesus trusted or Paul a guy who came along and ignored jesus teachings?
And yes the idea behind the gods are the same. But the gods logically cannot be the same as the Koran is the word of God and goes against the NT teachings completely. The whole point of the NT to Christians is jesus and his resurrection. Or at least that he is the son of god in a more literal sense.
Jesus never declared abrahams laws as fulfilled or completed and to be ignored by Jews. His apostles certainly did not suddenly give up their jewish laws. Paul corrupted the words of the apostles and preached his own doctrine.
And Jesus wept...
RM and Castiel, as interesting as this is, it is tangential to a tangent of a tangent on the Halal debate. Perhaps, if you two want to discuss scripture, do so in another thread without hijacking this one.
RM, word of warning, on items of NT scripture and Quran, Castiel, after doing his SAS fitness regime in the morning, dons his Franciscan Friars habit with a Burka on top and then starts his daily studies. He has a Masters Degree in each on the Scriptures, reads Hadith as bedtime stories, can anagram all the Surah for kicks and has two doctorate each on the Entire NT and Quran (I think he is not fond of the OT).
Regards
NB
Caporegime
So are we at least agreed that Christians cannot eat halal?
Caporegime
They can be the same god actually. Unless you believe the Koran and the NT to both be completely true that is. If you believe one of them is wrong/not being literal then they can be the same.
I have read the Bible and parts of the Koran and that is why I know they are the same god.
Only if you are a cultist with little or no objective knowledge of the scripture. You are basically saying that most of the New Testament is not accepted by Christians, which is patent rubbish. You can carry on reciting your anti-Pauline rhetoric all day long, the fact is that most Christians accept the Pauline Doctrines as being valid. And Mark and James also support the point that Mosaic Law was fulfilled with the coming of Christ. (Why you are banging on about Abraham's Law I don't know as Abragam would have been subject to Noahide Law, and those 7 laws are still valid, under both the Apostolic and Nicene creed, as I said earlier.)
And, there is nothing in scripture to say Christians cannot eat halal. So no, we are not all in agreement with you...neither are the majority of mainstream Christianity either.
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Caporegime
I think the protagonist has to take the view that if you are christian you must only believe in the NT making the Koran fake and vice versa? But also that those who believe in one believe the other is s corruption. If you believe in C and you know someone else believes is islam but specifically not Christianity then you could only take a position that the other must be false.
Soldato
Yet another thread descends into epistemological debate
I wonder what Gettier would say.
Caporegime
That depends on whether you see jesus and his apostles as the first Christians or Paul the one who was shunned by the apostles and overrode jesus teachings as the first christian.
I'm going to side with jesus and his apostles.
Soldato
Someone mentioned this to me a few days ago and its an interesting thought.
Now if halal meat is sold in a supermarket and not labelled as halal ( which is apparently what is happening ) and a christian buys it and consumes it... then he is on dodgy ground with god!
As we all know it is a sin to worship false gods... and the food has been "blessed" under the name of the false god of islam! oh dear well thats another christian soul on the express elevator to hell
I am not a religious person so maybe one of you who is should get some halal meat unknowingly then sue the supermarket for destroying you're immortal soul and demand a few mill in compensation
Oh then get on the blower to the Daily-Heil
Just noticed castiel mentioned earlier that its not a false god... well i would suggest it is. Muslims certainly do not think the christian god is not allah by another name ( violence in the world based around muslims and christians fighting ). Just because in some people's opinion it is not a false gods blessing that does not mean a lot DO think it is... remember we are dealing with the wacky people who think there are big floating bearded men in the sky with supernatural powers, you cannot argue rationally with them
Now if halal meat is sold in a supermarket and not labelled as halal ( which is apparently what is happening ) and a christian buys it and consumes it... then he is on dodgy ground with god!
As we all know it is a sin to worship false gods... and the food has been "blessed" under the name of the false god of islam! oh dear well thats another christian soul on the express elevator to hell
I am not a religious person so maybe one of you who is should get some halal meat unknowingly then sue the supermarket for destroying you're immortal soul and demand a few mill in compensation
Oh then get on the blower to the Daily-Heil
Just noticed castiel mentioned earlier that its not a false god... well i would suggest it is. Muslims certainly do not think the christian god is not allah by another name ( violence in the world based around muslims and christians fighting ). Just because in some people's opinion it is not a false gods blessing that does not mean a lot DO think it is... remember we are dealing with the wacky people who think there are big floating bearded men in the sky with supernatural powers, you cannot argue rationally with them
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Soldato
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I agree but just to keep this sports analogy going, I would argue its more like Rugby vs Football, where both are Sports, but with different games and different rules. The football fan says 'now hang on, we can't use your ball, it won't roll right. And the rugby fan says 'hey now, your goal is missing its conversion posts?!?'.
A football team can no more play football on a rugby pitch with a rugby ball, than a rugby team can play rugby with a football on a football pitch.
Analogy too obscure now? Heh.
I am not justifying the conflict. I sit on the sidelines and wish everybody would just get along.
Paul wasn't shunned by the apostles. You are confusing the Apostles with the Pharisees and Sedducees of Jerusalem, who were Jewish.
The point is that despite what you might believe, the majority of Christianity believe in the partial or total abrogation of the Mosaic Law as being fulfilled by Christ. And the vast majority also accept Paul as witness to Christ as set out in the Testimony of Acts, despite what you say.
You are merely voicing a modern fringe interpretation that has virtually no acceptance whatsoever in mainstream Christianity, in fact most western Churches would call it heresy. This illustrates that no matter how many times you repeat yourself Christians still don't accept that interpretation. What you are saying is that a major portion of the New Testament is not accepted by Mainstream Christianity and that is demonstrably wrong.
In that case you would be saying that the Ball is the Interpretation of Gods Word and the term Sport is analogous to God...Correct?
In which case it still wouldn't matter if both agreed that both rugby and football were indeed Sports (with Sports being analogous to the same One True God) therefore to say that the rugby ball is metaphorically a false Idol, is to say that the metaphorical Sport is also false. Of course one cannot truly play by the rules of the other and remain within their respective play books, but that doesn't follow that the same leather that binds the rugby ball cannot bind the football. (Another analogy would be that they are English Rugby team and English Football Team, with England being analogous to God...they can both play by different rules with a different ball..but they still sing the same national anthem in the beginning and meet the same Queen at the End)
Therefore as before, an affectation toward The One True God cannot be idolatrous no matter who the speaker is, to say it is, is to say God is false.
Soldato
Well lets face real facts... it was all made up in the early few centuries we now call AD by the newly formed followers of the jesus dude.... they had to stop decent into a billion splinter groups who all would side with whatever teaching they liked. They had to make ONE church and make sure any other voices were silenced. We ended up with the teaching of the winning group... nothing more nothing less.
no one will EVER know the eact teaching of the man called jesus ( if he existed at all ) because it is lost to history. Its is utterly UTTERLY arrogant for anyone to say that "our understanding is right and you are wrong" when no one will ever know the true teachings unless you can travel back in time and talk to the man in person.
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RM and Castiel...here you go. I even took away the pain of naming a thread for you 
. Slug away.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18599278
. Slug away.http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18599278
For the purpose of this discussion, it does not really matter what the objective historical truth is, but what the majority of Mainstream Christianity believes and accepts as doctrine. And they believe that the God of Abraham is the same God across the three respective faiths and also that the bible is valid, including Paul.
Anyway, people are getting all bent out of shape with the direction this thread has taken so let's put it back on track and let everyone resume banging on about animal welfare and Muslims.
Soldato
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Neigh,
'Sport' is the God, our superset of all other sets.
'Rugby / Football / Grey Hound Racing' are our religions, a subset.
'Rugby / Football' are similarly related religions,
'Rugby' is one religion, the set of rugby.
This forms a top down logical hierarchy. The chain only waterfalls from top to bottom, not bottom up. If sport is false, everything else is false, but if football is false it only waterfalls from the top to erase itself. In this case, a bad egg does not spoil the whole basket.
Simularly, just because the Westboro Baptist Church are a bunch of douche bags, does not bring the entirety of christianity into disrepute.
Yeah but if the Westboro church pray to God does that mean their falsity is reflected in God?
Because that is what you analogy is saying. The Muslim affectation to Allah is analogous to the Christian affectation of Grace before a meal, different actions, same God.