Halal, is it meat you're looking for?

[The Running Man]

What about the tens of millions of us who don't mind, are you proposing to ban businesses from selling halal if it's over the 5% quota when they're happy to sell halal because it fits their business model, lots of control freaks about these days.

Hm the removal of choice or undocumented removal of choice is part5of the issue here. Not to mention the quasi religious issue of eating meat that unless you are a Muslim you would believe to be ritually slaughtered to a false god under religious exemption from the standard slaughter methods

 

[thep02]

You can dismount your high horse and learn to understand English. I didn't propose anything, merely clarified the obvious meaning behind the post.

That's twice in the last 24 hours you've jumped on a comment of mine and got the meaning behind it completely wrong.

Dude I asked you a question based upon what you said was a problem I presumed you had some thoughts on the matter, so don't jump down my throat from your high horse.

 

[asim18]

I think you're being a bit facetious there. He obviously means only five percent of the population require halal meat but five times that amount is produced.

It's not as simple as that though. Doesn't matter how many customers "require" halal. If someone's running a kebab shop in London for example, a significant customer base will require halal. Doesn't mean he's going to use two different supply chains and an extra pair of rotisseries just to serve people who aren't Muslims. This is where the extra "five times more" comes from. Not some sinister plan to get people to eat halal, but merely because it makes good business sense.

If all doner kebab shops started doing this there wont be many kebab shops left in business.

 

[Efour]

Hm the removal of choice or undocumented removal of choice is part5of the issue here.

For me its half of the issue. The other half being ritual slaughter methods.

Its purely economics and their personal belief of the shop owner and the usual complacency of non religious people not actually giving a toss.

 

[Castiel]

Im sure it's based of the same god.

Well, there you go..It they worship the same God, they simply go about it in a different way. Which is what I have been saying all along.

you can't really look at pseudo Christianity

Whatever Pseudo-Christianity is, it would appear that by quoting only American Fundamentalist Christians it would be you that is taking your opinion from such, not I.

 

[D.P.]

I think you're being a bit facetious there. He obviously means only five percent of the population require halal meat but five times that amount is produced.

But so what, the 2 percentages are absolutely irrelevant and unconnected.

 

[thep02]

Hm the removal of choice or undocumented removal of choice is part5of the issue here. Not to mention the quasi religious issue of eating meat that unless you are a Muslim you would believe to be ritually slaughtered to a false god under religious exemption from the standard slaughter methods

That's getting into the relms of mumbo jumbo and magic there dude it's all just meat to me as no religion means anything to me, halal isn't some kind of spell.

 

[Dis86]

Wtf is with people arguing with me?! I was just clarifying someone else's rather obvious point whereby Gilly, possibly intentionally, mistook the meaning!

 

[dowie]

Imagine if all meat were Kosher, would Muslims have issue with it, if it were unlabelled?

Muslims can eat Kosher so not an issue really. The main issue would be that it isn't pre-stunned so some meat eaters who are also concerned with animal welfare might take issue.

During the horse meat scandal didn't some Muslims complain that they were eating non Halal meat and it was against their religious belief?

If that is all the case, then why should Christians, Jews have to put up with meat that has been intended for a Muslim audience. It wouldn't be accepted the other way. We'd have people protesting and setting stuff on fire.

Jews don't necessarily - if they want to eat kosher then they don't buy meat from mainstream sources but go to specialist butchers... a Jewish guy at work tells everyone he's a vegetarian but actually its just an easy explanation for why he can't eat meat at most restaurants etc...

Christians, non believers on the other hand can eat halal without any issue - so serving halal covers muslims + christians + a bunch of other people.

The only real issue here is the lack of labelling and the halal/kosher prepared without stunning. Sikhs can't eat halal and others have legitimate objections so it should be labelled.

 

[The Running Man]

Well, there you go..It they worship the same God, they simply go about it in a different way. Which is what I have been saying all along.



Whatever Pseudo-Christianity is, it would appear that by quoting only American Fundamentalist Christians it would be you that is taking your opinion from such, not I.

Well if your view of the world is very childish then yes something that is different is exactly the same. Effectively islam took an established god and reinvented it into a new one. It's not the same. Remember the Koran is the literal word of a god apparently but the message and his actions do not match the new testament as Christians believe ergo he cannot be the same.

When you clone a sheep is it now the original one? No it's similar, build lt from the same DNA but it isn't the same sheep. It will think differently and act differently even though it was cloned. Therefore it is not the same sheep as one god to the next is not the same despite religions taking the DNA ( in a non literal sense).

Christianity is such a weak religion. It has been altered by man over time and does not represent what it did initially. I call it cop out Christianity. I.e they believe in the best bits of christ but completely ignore his teachings in many respects choosing to instead follow the teachings of saul/paul which contradicted the teachings of jesus.

Now if you are a paul believer that is fine, however who decreed paul to be an apostle pr prophet? Not jesus nor jesus apostles. Paul is what you would call a self made apostle.

 

[Dis86]

But so what, the 2 percentages are absolutely irrelevant and unconnected.

Really? Cos I'm pretty sure if the 5% didn't exist then there would be no need to produce any. Thus, connected.

 

[The Running Man]

Christians, non believers on the other hand can eat halal without any issue - so serving halal covers muslims + christians + a bunch of other people.

The only real issue here is the lack of labelling and the halal/kosher prepared without stunning. Sikhs can't eat halal and others have legitimate objections so it should be labelled.

That would only be thw cause if you believed that Paul had authority to override jesus teachings.

That's getting into the relms of mumbo jumbo and magic there dude it's all just meat to me as no religion means anything to me, halal isn't some kind of spell.

The whole reason for this thread is derived from religious mumbo jumbo so it's linked. Without mumbo jumbo there is no halal and no religious exemption.

 

[Dis86]

It's not as simple as that though. Doesn't matter how many customers "require" halal. If someone's running a kebab shop in London for example, a significant customer base will require halal. Doesn't mean he's going to use two different supply chains and an extra pair of rotisseries just to serve people who aren't Muslims. This is where the extra "five times more" comes from. Not some sinister plan to get people to eat halal, but merely because it makes good business sense.

If all doner kebab shops started doing this there wont be many kebab shops left in business.

What about people that suffer from things such as gluten intolerance? They require that different areas are used for food preparation and cooking, different utensils are used and obviously there's the fact that the foods cannot contain gluten. How many places cater to that? Not many! Some restaurants have a gluten free day but that's very rare.

Or other common allergies such as peanut or lactose intolerances?

Why are religious beliefs being put ahead of risks to peoples lives?

 

[thep02]

The whole reason for this thread is derived from religious mumbo jumbo so it's linked. Without mumbo jumbo there is no halal and no religious exemption.

Nah the whole reason for the thread is to bash muzzies, halal in shops is the result of business pressure nothing to do with Muslims getting what they want through campaigning or PC BS.

 

[deuse]

Is it not currently serving 100% of the meat eating population? Where is it failing?

Gilly would love to wind up everyone on this planet, then sit back and watch the mayhem

 

[The Running Man]

Nah the whole reason for the thread is to bash muzzies, halal in shops is the result of business pressure nothing to do with Muslims getting what they want through campaigning or PC BS.

I can't tell whether this is sarcastic or not?

 

[Castiel]

snip

No disrespect Nickg, but you don't know what you are talking about...you are repeating fringe interpretations as if they are the beliefs of mainstream Christianity. The fact is that if you just went by the Pauline Epistles then like the Catholics you wouldn't accept the term People of the Book anyway, and instead have a slightly different understanding of a Christians relationship with God (i.e, through his Living Word, not his Written Scripture) which undermines your argument somewhat..not to mention that the actual position you say is a Pauline one is actually from the Canonical Gospels, namely Mark. Stop reading nonsense from fundamentalists and accept the fact that all mainstream abrahamic religions worship the God of Abraham. That they also believe that same God has given a different message depending on how each interpret or accept it is immaterial to that fundamental truth.

That would only be thw cause if you believed that Paul had authority to override jesus teachings.

Mark 7:18/19 has Jesus pretty much saying that food cannot make a man unclean as it goes to his stomach, not to his heart. (Mark 7:1-23)

He effectively declared all food clean, the point of the scripture is that despite what the Pharisees were teaching at the time, Christ said that God wasn't concerned with what you eat or the ceremonies attributed to it , but your motives and what is in your heart. This was part of Christ's fulfilment of Gods Law. (The Old Testament and the Covenants within it)

Again you are assuming that anti-Pauline fundamentalist Southern baptists speak for all Christianity, when in fact they only speak for a very small minority.

You sound like Kedge, next you'll be telling us that Evolution is a scam invented by Atheists to undermine God and exalt Satan..

 

[Tefal]

Nah the whole reason for the thread is to bash muzzies, halal in shops is the result of business pressure nothing to do with Muslims getting what they want through campaigning or PC BS.

business pressure from who?

 

[thep02]

business pressure from who?

The desire to make profit.

 

[The Running Man]

Mark 7:18/19 has Jesus pretty much saying that food cannot make a man unclean as it goes to his stomach, not to his heart. (Mark 7:1-23)

He effectively declared all food clean, the point of the scripture is that despite what the Pharisees were teaching at the time, Christ said that God wasn't concerned with what you eat or the ceremonies attributed to it , but your motives and what is in your heart. This was part of Christ's fulfilment of Gods Law. (The Old Testament and the Covenants within it)

Again you are assuming that anti-Pauline fundamentalist Southern baptists speak for all Christianity, when in fact they only speak for a very small minority.

You sound like Kedge, next you'll be telling us that Evolution is a scam invented by Atheists to undermine God and exalt Satan..

he didn't, that is taking the passage too simply and ignoring the context,

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The washing of hands before eating was not a Law from Moses. It was a tradition from the Pharisees.

6 “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; 7 in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ 8 You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.” 9 And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition!” Mark 7:6-9

He is talking about man made laws, not those provided to him from god. Only if you choose to ignore the context and want to believe that you don't have to act like a jewish person that you can also be one of gods favoured. Perhaps the interpretation was by those who wanted to go to heaven but not actually become jewish or force others to become so?