Has making a pass at a woman just become illegal?

[Orangeade]

Indeed and faux outrage at not being able to be sexist or apply misogynistic behaviours directly to women. Then blaming it all on the foreigners... Oh and the complete lack of normal human interaction with the opposite sex... If society and the human race were based on these posts we'd be all ******!

But I don't think that is reasonable to say. Did you never when you were younger chat to a woman in bar? It's quite normal and the worse that would have happened is someone would have said no thanks. You being a gentleman would have then left and that would have been that.

Now you could face a charge. Its not hyperbole or outside reason to see it happening especially for naturally extrovert people who might happen upon someone differently minded.....or someone who's boyfriend suddenly arrived...

 

[Richie]

This means anyone who catcalls, wolf-whistles or makes a pass or sexual comment towards a woman that a “reasonable” person would feel amounts to harassment will no longer be able to claim it was meant as a compliment or joke. Police will be issued with guidance so they can enforce the law.

I appreciate you didn't say this but easier to put it in your quote to link it to your post.

The media need to stop writing it like this as it just feeds into the whole "men are toxic" narrative. The law applies to EVERYONE including women... So if anyone makes a sexual comment to a man that a “reasonable” person would feel amounts to harassment, will no longer be able to claim it was meant as a compliment or joke.

No, this is not "whatabout-ism", it's correcting what is written.

 

[nlel1975]

Now you could face a charge. Its not hyperbole or outside reason to see it happening especially for naturally extrovert people who might happen upon someone differently minded.....or someone who's boyfriend suddenly arrived...

If you see a girl you like and know deep down already she wouldn’t be interested in you best to assume she has a boyfriend and keep your nose out, and definitely don’t say hello to her if you happened to walk past her in the street. That could be classed as a pass.

 

[C Kent]

Indeed and faux outrage at not being able to be sexist or apply misogynistic behaviours directly to women.

Is it that, or is it that something as loose fitting as the terminology in the bill could be an entirely subjective set of circumstances that could change minute by minute? As mentioned numerous times there's already concrete harassment laws in place.

Officials said the guidance for police would make clear what is deemed reasonable by a third party rather than by the defendant.

Who or what organization are the 3rd party here? That should be concerning for anyone.

Then blaming it all on the foreigners... Oh and the complete lack of normal human interaction with the opposite sex... If society and the human race were based on these posts we'd be all ******!

Maybe engage your brain and address the point from Dis's post, unless you are unable to and that's why you resort to pithy one-liners?

 

[Orangeade]

If you see a girl you like and know deep down already she wouldn’t be interested in you best to assume she has a boyfriend and keep your nose out, and definitely don’t say hello to her if you happened to walk past her in the street. That could be classed as a pass.

Wut? Why wouldn't she like me? She is just a person like me? And it happened to me in a bar in Colmar once before. I had no idea she had a boyfriend so it was quite awkward when he walked in. Thankfully she didn't claim I was just a random person harassing her.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

But I don't think that is reasonable to say. Did you never when you were younger chat to a woman in bar? It's quite normal and the worse that would have happened is someone would have said no thanks. You being a gentleman would have then left and that would have been that.

Now you could face a charge. Its not hyperbole or outside reason to see it happening especially for naturally extrovert people who might happen upon someone differently minded.....or someone who's boyfriend suddenly arrived...

No you won't, as soon as they show no interest you bugger off.
The problem is some blokes will be full of alcohol and won't get the signals when to bugger off.

 

[Freefaller]

No you won't, as soon as they show no interest you bugger off.
The problem is some blokes will be full of alcohol and won't get the signals when to bugger off.

It's because it is their right "I am the best I deserve it!"

 

[NVP]

You haven't engaged with my point at all and I don't think you are engaging in good faith and are deliberately missing the point I was trying to make (or I explained it badly).

Yeh you're best to ignore him, he waffles a lot normally but when he's wrong he evolves into BudgetDowie.

 

[nlel1975]

No you won't, as soon as they show no interest you bugger off.
The problem is some blokes will be full of alcohol and won't get the signals when to bugger off.

Nightclubs and bars aren’t the best place to meet women, especially if you’ve been drinking. The stench of alcohol on your breath will be enough to put most women off.

 

[Freefaller]

But I don't think that is reasonable to say. Did you never when you were younger chat to a woman in bar? It's quite normal and the worse that would have happened is someone would have said no thanks. You being a gentleman would have then left and that would have been that.

Now you could face a charge. Its not hyperbole or outside reason to see it happening especially for naturally extrovert people who might happen upon someone differently minded.....or someone who's boyfriend suddenly arrived...

I met many of my girlfriends in the past at parties, bars, events even work conferences.

Heck back in 90s early 2000s behaviours were pretty awful in offices, a lot of the men were crowing in the hope of either a fling or more.

I still chat to women and have befriended many even now in my 40s. In fact it's easier as you get older and more confident as you have more things to say and know how to control the conversation better.

I wouldn't have any issues if the rules change as the way I speak to women is in a non aggressive non predatory way. It really isn't difficult to speak to the opposite sex without being crass.

Albeit I'm naturally extroverted and comfortable in my skin, if someone isn't interested in chatting I leave them be. It's not as I go out of my way to "chat people up" as I'm very happily married with kids, but I enjoy engaging with people (men or women).

I find it really hard to comprehend how people think wolf whistling and making crude sexual comments is a way to succeed. You can still be alpha/masculine without overtly crowing about it or making aggressive advances.

 

[Orangeade]

No you won't, as soon as they show no interest you bugger off.
The problem is some blokes will be full of alcohol and won't get the signals when to bugger off.

Ah you said it is okay so it's okay. Why are you trying to equate my points simply with drunken men? It's a cheap and dishonest and is not engaging in reasonable debate.

 

[mattx4]

France implemented a similar law four years ago. It seems to have gone pretty well.

Initially, people worried that there could be a bit of a gray zone between what we can call flirting and street harassment — but there is no gray zone. These behaviors are not acceptable, that is to say, the first degree of sexist and sexual violence ultimately was not sufficiently punished. There are two aspects of this law that aims at punishing it. The first one is, obviously, the idea of being able to sanction the perpetrators of street harassment, but also and more importantly, to raise awareness on what street harassment is. There is really a virtue in saying that criminal law forbids it, which makes it much easier to raise awareness and educate around it

 

[Orangeade]

Nightclubs and bars aren’t the best place to meet women, especially if you’ve been drinking. The stench of alcohol on your breath will be enough to put most women off.

Wut (again). You know women are humans like the rest of us like? They are not prudes in cotton wool. Why is it only men who can drink? I count some of my closest friends as my best drinking companions and I think they would strongly agree (but not enough to be arrested for harassment ) if they heard that. Also you can just go to a bar for fun times without having to pick someone up.

I think I'm taking crazy pills in this thread.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Ah you said it is okay so it's okay. Why are you trying to equate my points simply with drunken men? It's a cheap and dishonest and is not engaging in reasonable debate.

Ok some men even when not on alcohol will still try and push it.
No means no so apologise and walk off.
Nobody will call the Cops on you for that.

 

[Freefaller]

France implemented a similar law two years ago. It seems to have gone pretty well.

As long as it raises people's understanding and perspectives... France still has a bad case of rape and sexual assaults unfortunately though some of that uptick was attributed to isolation thanks to COVID... However despite those changes there's still issued with assault in France. Mainly from partners and people known to you rather than sexual assaults from strangers though.

 

[Devilman]

As long as it raises people's understanding and perspectives... France still has a bad case of rape and sexual assaults unfortunately though some of that uptick was attributed to isolation thanks to COVID... However despite those changes there's still issued with assault in France. Mainly from partners and people known to you rather than sexual assaults from strangers though.

So no relevance to the topic being discussed?

Just because the French still has a problem with domestic violence does not mean (or have any baring) on the topic of this discussion.

Perhaps it was not your intention, but this very much screams of "what-about-ism"

 

[Freefaller]

So not relevance to the topic being disccused?

Well that's why I replied with some context to Matt's points.

 

[Devilman]

Well that's why I replied with some context to Matt's points.

Matt raised the point that similar laws have been established by France for a few years..

Your counter to this was to take a totally "off-topic" angle by talking about how France still has issues with Domestic Violence from spouses.

Your "context" was irrelevant to the topic at hand, which has nothing to do with Domestic Violence within relationship(s).



To give a paraphrased example...

Matt: The French implimented laws so pervy letches couldn't creep out individuals and make them feel threatened or uncomfortable.

Freefaller: Yeh but French husbands still beat their wives!

Everyone Else: What does THAT have to do with the topic at hand?

 

[mattx4]

As long as it raises people's understanding and perspectives...

Yes that's the part that this law needs to address

Right now when something like this happens

Builders 'wolf-whistle and catcall' 14-year-old girl

The teenager was allegedly targeted by the builders while she walked past dressed in her school uniform on five separate occasions.

metro.co.uk

The onus is on the construction company to sort it out as it's a civil matter. The builder can just say there's no law against it innt. Well now there would be

 

[Freefaller]

Matt raised the point that similar laws have been established by France for a few years..

Your counter to this was to take a totally "off-topic" angle by talking about how France still has issues with Domestic Violence from spouses.

Your "context" was irrelevant to the topic at hand, which has nothing to do with Domestic Violence within relationship(s).



To give a paraphrased example...

Matt: The French implimented laws so pervy letches couldn't creep out individuals and make them feel threatened or uncomfortable.

Freefaller: Yeh but French husbands still beat their wives!

Everyone Else: What does THAT have to do with the topic at hand?

Well rapes and sexual assaults are still an issue. I said the majority are from domestic issues. But there's still a good 20% of them that are not.

So it is relevant.

Feel free to dismiss it or ignore it if you're not interested.



Sexual harassment is still an issue. Quite sad to see under 15s having such a problem though. My point was also that the laws as good as they may be aren't a cure-all.

That said I'm not sure if these assaults are inter-familial or gang related, or religiously driven.